Club 80-90 Forums

Just looking for some advice.

Mrs Frood is getting increasingly concerned about the lack of safe seating in the back and didn't even blink at the gimungous cost of the proper crash tested stuff.

Do they even do one?
If so, that would be the safest place to sit in a 25.
Lack of crumple zones etc.

I would have thought that a proper folding Caravelle bed would have had to pass the then-current safety tests, as it is made up of three seats with belts, mountings, etc.
Or are you referring to modern replacements?

I was thinking more of the modern ones, RIB and Variotech. Since I'd be looking for a 3/4 width bed, I'm not sure the caravelle beds come in that size.

Hoopy_Frood wrote:Since I'd be looking for a 3/4 width bed, I'm not sure the caravelle beds come in that size.

Joker/Atlantic/Cali bed's 3/4 width, and can't get much more "approved" than Westfalia, really.

Not sure why you'd need to go the expense of a crash tested bed - wouldn't this imply that you are attaching the seat belts to the bed, which is then attached to the van's body shell?

When we got our Westy we got three point belts fitted which are fixed directly back to mounting points on the van's body shell - plenty of threads on here about this - and that seemed to do the trick. There was no need to change the existing bed.

clift_d wrote:Not sure why you'd need to go the expense of a crash tested bed - wouldn't this imply that you are attaching the seat belts to the bed, which is then attached to the van's body shell?

No point whatsoever in being belted to the van if the seat you're sat on collapses in the event of a collision...

AdrianC wrote:No point whatsoever in being belted to the van if the seat you're sat on collapses in the event of a collision...

The seat belts need to stop you continuing forward at high velocity when the van stops - so the load on the seatbelt imparted by the passengers needs to be transferred back to the vehicle body.

If the seat belt is attached to the seat then the seat needs to be strong enough to transfer these crash loads back to the vehicle body and restrain the passengers i.e. a crash tested seat.

If the seat belt is attached to the van itself then the seat is not in the load path and so has no bearing - the passengers are anyway generally moving away from the seat which remains attached to the van.

As long as the seat is not loose - in which case it could continue forward until it hit somebody, then surely it doesn't matter if it's been tested or not.

clift_d wrote: As long as the seat is not loose - in which case it could continue forward until it hit somebody, then surely it doesn't matter if it's been tested or not.

My rear seat/bed has ply boards bolted to metal rock and roll hinges. Even though the seat belts are attached to the body, I'm still a bit concerned about the weakness of the ply boards, as I'm sure a heavy load in the boot would break through the seat back or snap it off the hinges in the event of an accident. That's why I'm considering something like the Bluebird seat.

I think that a lot of new owners look at the plethora of crash-tested beds available for T4/5s and expect they're available for T25s, they're not
Which was one of the reasons I decided to change my old van for the Westy I have now, my old one was basically two bits of ply, a couple of cheap cupboard hinges and two small barrel locks, which I could rip out with my bare hands
I think there would be a definite market for a RIB type seat/bed with built-in seat belts if one could be engineered to fit, (although I seem to remember reading somewhere that the testing of these beds isn't all it's cracked up to be)
Also I would imagine crash testing has come on a lot since even the last T25 or Westy rolled off the production line.

CJH wrote:I'm sure a heavy load in the boot would break through the seat back or snap it off the hinges in the event of an accident.

I doubt you're going to be able to find a bed that's been tested for its ability to stop an unrestrained load. They'll only have been tested for their ability to restrain a passenger and only if the bed has been fixed down as per the manufacturers instructions.

clift_d wrote: I doubt you're going to be able to find a bed that's been tested for its ability to stop an unrestrained load. They'll only have been tested for their ability to restrain a passenger and only if the bed has been fixed down as per the manufacturers instructions.

Agreed - but a metal frame with a welded in metal backing has to be better than a ply panel bolted at it's lower corners.

Hoopy_Frood wrote:Just looking for some advice.

Mrs Frood is getting increasingly concerned about the lack of safe seating in the back and didn't even blink at the gimungous cost of the proper crash tested stuff.

what are the concerns?

I'm actually working on something along these lines at the moment with a bed manufacturer.

clift_d wrote:

AdrianC wrote:
If the seat belt is attached to the van itself then the seat is not in the load path and so has no bearing - the passengers are anyway generally moving away from the seat which remains attached to the van.

err no

the body will impart a huge downward force on the seat base in a collision, the belt restrains the body from forward movement meaning the force is then directed in the only other possible direction ...down, with the seat base being flat there is nothing to stop you breaking the seat base panel and submarining under the belt causing massive injuries. Thats why modern seats have anti-submarining pieces in the metal of the seat.

Having said that...a lot of campers are running around with no seat belts so the benefit of a crash tested seat would be moot and that is probably why they are scarse

The limit of safety has to be the owners decision, you could fit a crash tested seat, full rear seat belts and then in a collision be decapitated by the rear locker that was fitted using 5mm self tappers