Club 80-90 Forums

I have to get a new leisure battery as the one in my camper is giving up the ghost .Can anyone recommend a good manufacture of Leisure Batteries..I have just read a report in C.C. magazine where they checked out many leisure batteries and the majority were just normal starter batteries with a different label..Unfortunately they do not give the names of the duff ones, And my local supplier is not stocking the recommended ones.

I cannot recommend any particular battery, but have popped in to say that which ever one you get, do yourself s favour and make it last for years by getting a device to shut off the battery before it gets too flat and damages itself. Most leisure batteries "die" from this rather than just normal use.

It is an expenditure that will pay for itself the very first time it does it's thing, buy an "LVD" (= Low Voltage Disconnect) like this one HERE This unit cuts off the power to your equipment at a voltage you set and prevents the battery wrecking itself by discharging too much.

Thanks for the information John... Will get it when find a decent Battery

You should always check the wiki - link top left of page. There's plenty of info in there about what fits and some links to places to buy:

https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Ma ... Electrical" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey John (ghost123uk), glad I just logged on and caught your link for the Disconnect, although I'm after one already in a box.
However, looking at that one gives me the idea that it might make a good electronics project, and I have a decent soldering iron now, so if you know of any in kit form, let me know!

I bought Halfords 60 aH leisure battery for £80, so definitely want to make it last! (At least it's charging well). Especially as I want to do some autumn/winter camping.
(Will also look for events on here )

Hope you are well

Oh Hi,
It took me a mo to remember who you are

AuroraVW wrote:Hey John.... I'm after one already in a box.

That one comes in a box, semi see through blue affair

To you and anyone else reading this, the instructions that come with that one are not very clear in my opinion. If anyone needs any help with this, just ask, don't guess, or smoke might result

AuroraVW wrote:However, looking at that one gives me the idea that it might make a good electronics project, and I have a decent soldering iron now, so if you know of any in kit form, let me know!

Don't know of any kits, but I do know it ain't as simple as "off at this voltage, and on again at this voltage" that would be quite easy, but there is hysteresis to consider, both on the "off" and then on the "on again" functions.

More words coming your way via P.M. as off topic

does the LVD come assembled in a housing or just as a circuit board? hope I am not being thick but it is not too clear to me on their website

Yes, it's not very clear on the picture or description I agree, but as per above ^^^ =

ghost123uk wrote:

AuroraVW wrote:Hey John... I'm after one already in a box.

That one comes in a box, semi see through blue affair

Aye, a plastic box a little larger than a 20 packet of fags. It has a red button on the top that is used to set the cut off and cut back in voltages. (I have mine set to 12 volts off and 13.2 volts to re-activate it).

Also note this =

ghost123uk wrote:The instructions that come with that one are not very clear in my opinion. If anyone needs any help with this, just ask, don't guess, or smoke might result

I emailed the maker about this. Setting it up is fairly easy, but the way the input and output wires are connected to the board and the output relay is not well documented. OK as long as you understand how it works and understand what "n/o" and "n/c" on a relay means ("Normally open" and "Normally Closed") but for someone with no background in such things it would be confusing.

As mentioned above and elsewhere, you only have to go to sleep with the TV (or similar) on twice and this unit has paid for itself by saving your leisure battery.

Also note, if considering getting a solar panel, you can get a solar panel charge controller with an LVD built in. (I use separate items). The ones I have seen so far are not adjustable for cut off and re-connect and in my opinion cut off too late, ie as low as 10.5 volts. Propex etc and many inverters also allow the battery to get too low before they cut off too. The general consensus on most battery manufacturers spec sheets is 12 volts, though they may be erring on the safe side and I suspect 11.5 volts would be fine, but don't quote me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Aside = Todays experiment is to test the health of your leisure battery. Tip1 = Do this on a morning when you are going to be in all day. Tip2 = for safety, best do this off the van and pref on a concrete surface, you will see why below.

Get an old but working 55 watt headlight bulb (we ALL have one kicking around don't we )

Get your meter out and connect it to your fully charged battery to read volts (should read very close to 12.9)

Now wait until the clock on the wall of your garage / shed reads on the hour.

Now connect the bulb to the battery, just improvise with bits of wire and insulation tape. (I use a spare bulb holder) - TAKE CARE the bulb gets VERY hot !! - lay it on a concrete floor or put it on top of an empty beans tin or summat (make sure it ain't going to fall off and set fire to summat).

Now pop into the garage / shed every half an hour and note the voltage (note - when it gets down to 12.3 ish it can sit there for a long time)

When the voltage drops to 12 volts (ok if it goes a little lower, but not below 11.5) make a note of the elapsed time.

Now multiply the time by 4.5 (the amps a 55 watt headlight bulb draws). The result is how many "amp hours" you have available in your battery. You may be surprised at how low it is compared to what is written on the battery's label. An "85Ah" in theory should run that bulb for nearly 19 hours or more realistically about 15 hours to 75% discharge, which is what manufacturers say is the very lowest you should go if you want your battery to last a long time (well looked after 5+ years can be achieved).

When you have finished, charge the battery up on your domestic charger. Doing so sooner rather than later is good.

The headlight bulb at 4.5 amps is a good load I reckon as it roughly simulates the use of a TV + a light + a phone charger + the intermittent "coming on" of a Propex heater (via the thermostat). My TV uses about 3 amps, others may use more, it says on the back.

ghost123uk wrote:Don't know of any kits, but I do know it ain't as simple as "off at this voltage, and on again at this voltage" that would be quite easy, but there is hysteresis to consider, both on the "off" and then on the "on again" functions.

Thanks John, (I really should have listened more intently at college ). Just had to look up hysteresis, and I think it's related to the rapid switching on and off of the circuit when the voltage is near to the cut-off point (for anyone interested).

I'll definitely purchase a ready made one and follow your guidelines.

Dawn.

ghost123uk wrote:
Also note this =

ghost123uk wrote:The instructions that come with that one are not very clear in my opinion. If anyone needs any help with this, just ask, don't guess, or smoke might result

Instructions? I have the box but nothing else...

John could you advise how to connect this? I have two 110ah batteries in parallel. Do the outputs for the appliances connect to the battery through this unit?

Have just finished installing my Sterling charger but this defeats me = Confused to say the least.

Thanks

Chris

cleagarr wrote:

ghost123uk wrote:
Also note this =

ghost123uk wrote:The instructions that come with that one are not very clear in my opinion. If anyone needs any help with this, just ask, don't guess, or smoke might result

Instructions? I have the box but nothing else...

John could you advise how to connect this? I have two 110ah batteries in parallel.

Hi Chris, Firstly, take care with wiring this. If you are at all not sure, please post back, don't guess !

Here is a link to their webpage = CLICK HERE (I hope that providing that link means I can put up their picture )



Get your printer switched on and print out the relevant bits from that webpage

OK, so your 2 batteries are in parallel, so just treat them as if they are just one big battery.

1 = The wires that come from the battery to the left hand side in the picture do NOT have to be thick ones. In fact the black earth wire can just be a short bit of wire connected to a nearby clean bit of metalwork on the body, or you can go to the -ve on the battery if it is close.

2 = The wires that comes from the right hand side of the pic need to be thick enough to handle whatever load you have, but they do NOT have to handle the (high) charging currents. So if you have say a TV, Propex, and some lights, then something around 10 amps would be fine. Of course you should always fit a fuse rated at a bit less than the cable, on the red wire that comes from the battery and goes to the terminal marked "NO" (= Normally Open) on the blue box. Put the fuse close to the battery terminal. See note in number "4" below re the black wire.

3 = The wire that comes from the terminal marked "com" (= "common") should be red and the same size as the wire from the battery on the adjacent terminal. This wire is the "feed" to all of your "loads" (TV lights etc). This can be simply spliced into the existing feeds, or often does so via a small, cheap, fused distribution box (Ebay).

4 = Note that the thicker black wire shown coming from the battery to the right hand side of the picture is actually just an earth (to the body). Normally this is a short length of wire from the -ve terminal to "earth" and should be a proper earth strap or similar as this DOES have to conduct the quite high charging currents.

So, your "load's" are earthed to a convenient bit of bodywork near to them (no need to run long earth wires around the van, just find a suitable nearby place to earth them ) Then the wire as in number "3" above feeds the live 12 volts to all your camping accessories.

Take your time with the "programming" using the red push button on the top. The table of "how to" is on that website link above. I suggest a disconnect voltage of 12 volts is a safe option to look after your batteries, and a re-connect voltage of 13.2 volts is about right. I also suggest you double check your settings by going through the procedure but not altering what you previously set, just count the LED flashes and compare them to the table (print it out! ) Also, make a note on a scrap of paper of what settings you chose and put it inside the little blue box for future reference.

One last thing, remember that when you fire up the engine, it takes about 2 minutes before the unit re-connects to the leisure battery (because of a thing called hysteresis, but we won't go into that right now !)

This looks like a long "how to" but it likely took longer to write than to actually do !

Once set up, your leisure battery should last for a good few years

Any questions, just ask on here, don't guess !

That's a good detailed post - probably worth adding to the wiki I'd say.

A couple of observations/comments about fuses. Firstly it seemed feasible to me, if unlikely, that the voltage monitoring side of the LVD might fail in such a way that it might have a dead short, or the wiring could get trapped, so I put a small fuse in the thin red wire on the left. Secondly, that LVD is rated for a total load of 16A, so the 10A suggestion from Ghost should on no account be higher than 16A, just to protect the LVD itself. I used a 15A fuse.

ghost123uk wrote: Of course you should always fit a fuse rated at a bit less than the cable, near to the blue box, on the red wire that comes from the battery and goes to the terminal marked "NO" (= Normally Open) on the blue box.

Ghost, for my own edification, what's the idea behind having this fuse close to the blue box? Doesn't that leave the bit of wire between the battery and the fuse unprotected in case of a snagged/damaged wire? I've generally placed fuses close to the battery if possible, so that if anything downstream causes a high current flow then the fuse will blow.

CJH wrote:

ghost123uk wrote: Of course you should always fit a fuse rated at a bit less than the cable, near to the blue box, on the red wire that comes from the battery and goes to the terminal marked "NO" (= Normally Open) on the blue box.

Ghost, for my own edification, what's the idea behind having this fuse close to the blue box? Doesn't that leave the bit of wire between the battery and the fuse unprotected in case of a snagged/damaged wire? I've generally placed fuses close to the battery if possible, so that if anything downstream causes a high current flow then the fuse will blow.

You are right, the fuse in that wire should be near the battery

E D I T = I have amended my post above accordingly

Thanks John! As expected that is a brilliant bit of help.

Cheers