Club 80-90 Forums

Just a quick question, does the chunky cable on the positive terminal go all the way to the starter? There is also a chunky cable on the starter motor and it doesn't look to be in very good condition, is it hard to replace?

I was also wondering if anyone knew where to get a new spade connector to fit this size of chunky cable?

Would it be something like this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-COPPER-TUBE ... 0747911690" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers, John.

cubensis wrote:(1) Does the chunky cable on the positive terminal go all the way to the starter?

(2) I was also wondering if anyone knew where to get a new spade connector to fit this size of chunky cable?

(1) Yes, it goes to the stud on the solenoid, where the output cable from the alternator also connects.

(2) You could try here:

Battery cable terminal linky

According to the wiring diagram, it's 35sq mm cable. There's always fleabay, too. One problem, though, is that the new terminals will need crimping, for which you will need a big ratchet/hydraulic-crimper.

James

Thank you for this, 35mm2 - that is chunky, what wiring diagram did you look at to find this out? Don't think my standard crimpers are gonna touch that!

I'll have a think before I do anything, the shroud that covers the connection to the starter wasn't on and the ring connector is in bad condition. I've spent the day cleaning up all the connections around the starter / alternator, replacing connectors, replacing green / black wire and sanding terminals and the van seems to start much much better, gonna try it again tomorrow when it's cold.

Do you know of any way I could crimp a new ring connector on without buying hefty tools? Mole grips maybe?

I solder mine.

Good point, OBG. Those terminals in the link I gave do say that they can be soldered or crimped. What power is your soldering iron?

cubensis wrote:Thank you for this, 35mm2 - that is chunky, what wiring diagram did you look at to find this out?

Yup, 35mm2 is good for 240A. The starter draws a LOT of current!

If you look at the wiring diagram in the Haynes, the cross-section sizes are marked next to each run of cable (2.5, 6.0, 35, etc).

James

I use a blowtorch! The only problem with soldering them is the solder wicks up the strands and stiffens the cable so I always support the cable with a couple of layers of shrink tubing which also covers the melted insulation as it invariably does melt with the amount of heat that you have to put into them. (This cuts down the chance of the joint work hardening with vibration and fracturing.)

That's a good point about the work-hardened fracturing. I was always taught that it wasn't good practice to solder terminals, just crimp them, on vehicles for that very reason. People seem to do it on boats, though, even when the connections are right next to a big vibrating diesel engine, so who knows?

I do it because of a lifetime of working with boats - salt water and crimps are a recipe for electrical gremlins in a boat. Just the salt air gets into them. With the amount of salt that gets on the roads it soon finds its way into joints. The salt solution soon begins the corrosion process gradually increasing the resistance in the joint. This is borne out by the number of people who post about the green copper that they have under the insulation when they remake a terminal in the engine bay, I lost 0.2v in one crimped terminal on the alternator to battery cable due to corrosion (the cable is less than a foot long also) - these 0.2 volts can soon mount up - 5 dodgy joints like that have lost you 1v!!!! Doesn't bode well for charging.

Funny, isn't it? Most people do it on boats, for all the reasons you've described, but then we're told not to do it on road vehicles.

Have you ever had a soldered joint fail through fracturing, in all those years of doing it that way?

I can remember one failing many, many years ago (most probably due to poor workmanship rather than anything else) but have had numerous crimped ones fail.

My soldering skills are fine, with LOTS of experience, but only with my usual Weller 35W or fine Antex 15W irons on small to medium stuff.

For heavy stuff, I do have 2 types of heavy solder as well, one with flux and one without. I also have some flux in a tin. However, my attempts to solder heavy stuff like this, whilst I can do it, I am never happy with the end result. I don't get that 100% "solder soaked in / tinned" result I want. Plus the oxidation I get from using a naked flame from a gas blowtorch creates problems with the solder not wicking or tinning correctly.

OBG, could you post how you do it re soldering big stuff with a blow torch ?

On a lot of terminals I can get away with using a 75w iron, once I get on to battery terminals size I use a pencil gas torch or a larger blow torch. Ensure that you have a decent gauge of solder - you can twist a lot of lengths of finer stuff together to enable you to get the solder in the joint quickly. Ensure that the wire and terminal are scrupulously clean to start with - if soldering onto an old wire that has oxidised I will clean it first with flux, if it is the acid type of flux what you can do is warm the object then rub the flux into the strands well with your fingers and you will see when it has cleaned the strands to bright copper, wash off with warm water then you can solder with normal electrical solder which has flux that remains neutral and doesn't need removing. The main thing to remember when soldering is to heat the terminal itself all around with a moving flame not the wire - heating the wire will make the copper oxidize in the flame leading to that lack of flow of solder. The wire will get up to temperature once a little solder has made the contact between the terminal and the wire.( If you have the correct size terminal for the wire).

As always do not forget to put the shrink wrap on the wire first - a long way away from the end that you are working on as the heat travels well even if clamped in a vice!

This youtube vid shows it quick and simple. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEWuCI-h-Mo

Thank for all the advice guys, learnt a bit from this thread.

One more question, how hard is it to remove the positive lead all together and replace it? Has anyone done it before?

It appears to go into a part of the chassis at the back a foot or so behind the starter (if looking from the back), then come back up behind the drivers seat.

Presumably you have a petrol then? Usually you find it is just the end that needs remaking - you only need to cut off the terminal and put a new one on usually, the rest of the cable should be in good nick.