Club 80-90 Forums

As part of my research into replacement engines for my van, I’ve been exploring the wasserboxer options. As I mentioned on another thread acknowledged experts like Laurie Pettitt and Marco Mansi no longer seem to be in the game so I turned my attention to what’s on the market elsewhere. The Americans are spoiled with companies like Go Westy and Waterboxer.com , who do top-class rebuilt and re-enginered WBX engines up to 2.5 litre (at a price!) but here in the UK we seem to have a very limited choice:

The Engine Shop (TES) offer standard 1.9 and 2.1 WBX engines at around £1300, and also advertise a 2.2 ‘big bore’ version with an uprated camshaft at £1750. They answered my original email query, about the camshaft spec, telling me it was a 290 degree duration item (quite a ‘hot’ cam) but telling me they have ‘no stock’ of these engines. Two further queries on whether they can still be ordered and what the lead time would be have fallen on deaf ears! Not a good sign…

Elite VW have had some bad press because of the fact that the engines are rebuilt with replacement parts where necessary, rather than ‘fully reconditioned’. This needn’t be a big problem provided the assessment and measuring of parts prior to rebuild is done thoroughly. Their prices are relatively low (£900) but they only advertise a 1.9 and queries about a 2.1 have resulted in a roaring silence. Hmph.

VWsparesshop on eBay advertise both 1.9s and 2.1s (£1400) and have been very quick to respond to questions about uprated possibilities. They have offered a 2.1 with a balanced crank and rods and choice of three longer duration cams (246, 272 or 278) for an additional £150 (total £1550).

The standard cam has a quoted duration of inlet 238 degrees and exhaust 230 degrees so the 246 doesn’t seem like much of a change (unless anyone can advise otherwise). I think the 290deg cam offered by TES was way too ‘hot’ for a generally very mild engine like the WBX, but the 272 might be a good choice. Has anyone any opinions on this?

It’s not exactly a huge choice but I’ve already more or less ruled out other VW engines and am moving rapidly away from Subaru power due to cost, complication and the question marks over LPG and the valve seats (not an issue with the WBX).

The original engine is now consuming oil at an alarming rate and I will therefore be forced to do something quite quickly. A replacement WBX is the quickest and simplest solution and it’s not a bad old lump overall.

Trundler wrote:queries about a 2.1 have resulted in a roaring silence. Hmph.

This is Elite on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/T25-T3-DJ-2-1 ... 735wt_1170

I have an Elite 2.1 DJ engine in our van and if I were to need another one I wouldn't hesitate to use them.

Ian

Volkspares? Another possibility.

http://www.volkspares.co.uk/Shop/produc ... 39118890df" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click 'engines' on the left hand side - they do all the Aircooled ones then at bottom of the list - 79-90. Have bought from them in the past and they were very good in terms of support. Been around for a very long time.

Trundler wrote:The Americans are spoiled with companies ... who do top-class rebuilt and re-enginered WBX engines ... (at a price!)

(One UK supplier) have had some bad press because of the fact that the engines are rebuilt with replacement parts where necessary, rather than ‘fully reconditioned’.

And therein lies the fundamental dichotomy.

Fill your Brickwerks basket with all the bits up you'd need for a "fully reconditioned" engine. Now get a quote for the machining work. Figure out how long it'll take to strip it, clean it, properly re-assemble it - and all at a fair commercial hourly rate that'll pay for all the costs of running a business. Then add a contingency fund for warranty work.

You will definitely come to far more than a grand. So the only way to "rebuild" an engine for that price is not to rebuild it, but to refresh it.

AdrianC wrote:

Trundler wrote:The Americans are spoiled with companies ... who do top-class rebuilt and re-enginered WBX engines ... (at a price!)

(One UK supplier) have had some bad press because of the fact that the engines are rebuilt with replacement parts where necessary, rather than ‘fully reconditioned’.

And therein lies the fundamental dichotomy.

Fill your Brickwerks basket with all the bits up you'd need for a "fully reconditioned" engine. Now get a quote for the machining work. Figure out how long it'll take to strip it, clean it, properly re-assemble it - and all at a fair commercial hourly rate that'll pay for all the costs of running a business. Then add a contingency fund for warranty work.

You will definitely come to far more than a grand. So the only way to "rebuild" an engine for that price is not to rebuild it, but to refresh it.

Ahmen to that from someone who has rebuilt 3 in the last few years a DG, a slightly modded DG and an MV. In some cases the parts alone have cost more than a 'recon' and all the labour has been free and just for the love of it. I'd be damned if I would be tempted to do it for money, and as for warranties included definately not possible for the prices charged. I think the old adage 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' comes as part of a 'recon' at those prices, but then why over egg the pudding if it's not broke now it might last for ages and if the main failure points such as head gaskets have been done it probable will.

Id doubt elite and others will be buying there parts from brickwerks,tho, and paying a tenner for post.!!!!!!!

true enough, but even at half the cost of parts the figures wouldn't work, that would be 100% mark up and most retailers work on less profit than that.Don't they?

P.S. Don't shout at me but I rarely buy from the place you mentioned and yes I know that it's good quality.

As always I only say what I know ....

Going off the subject a bit,the same supplier sells some bits that come in the same bag(sealed),with nearly 400 % markup from another supplier and they must be selling at a profit.

Which supplier's are they?

Ian and Ralph, thanks – I hadn’t realised that Elite and ‘thevwspareshop’ on eBay were one and the same and I’d forgotten about Volkspares.

The table below shows the list of items included in the engine refurbishment as quoted by TES, Elite, and Volkspares. There isn’t much to choose between them. Some of the items not mentiones seem too small to be excluded so I’d assume they are included but I’d check this before choosing. The prices are:
Elite £1400 (£1550 with balanced crank and uprated cam)
TES £1359 (£1750 for uprated ‘big bore version – currently out of stock)
Volkspares £1573.

At the moment I lean towards Elite (TES haven’t responded to my recent queries) but I will explore options with Volkspares.

Dont want to bad mouth any supplier to anyone,tho the same one offers some parts a lot cheaper than others do,supose its swings and rounderbouts.

The Volkspares engine is from Vege, as is the engine supplied by Just Kampers, but Volkspares charge £1573, and JK want £1795.

Also interessting, in light of the supposed question marks over Elite's refurbishing method is this statement from JK's engine page:

" The unit is supplied with:
New barrels and pistons
New bearings
New oil pump
New valve springs
New gaskets
New oil cooler.
All other components are reconditioned if they are within VW tolerances. If not, they are also replaced."

So, this is obviously Vege's policy.

Currently, Elite are firm favourites.

PS - VW Heritage were also in the frame initially but their (Remtec) engine is priced at over £2000.

Trundler wrote:The Volkspares engine is from Vege,

" The unit is supplied with:
New barrels and pistons
New bearings
New oil pump
New valve springs
New gaskets
New oil cooler.
All other components are reconditioned if they are within VW tolerances. If not, they are also replaced."

So, this is obviously Vege's policy.

But I have seen an engine with less than 250 miles on the clock but 5 years since 'a Vege engine was fitted' with the receipt for £1000 just for the engine and the thing was a disaster area (the elderly owner had died and his widow couldn't force herself to part with the van until it had decayed away on the drive). In the end a friend and I stripped the engine and on one bank it said 'Good Side' on the barrels and pistons The whole of that side was made up with blue silicone and spaghetti-like strands of it were right throughout the cooling system. Both heads had been painted silver and there were several very poor stud bodges possibly done by the Buxton garage who had 'fitted' the engine.

Ian