Club 80-90 Forums

ok, just done cambelt, head gasket, replaced all 4 injectors, oils, filters, glow pugs and relay, head checked for warp when off, but that was all... bleed up up and running, fuel filter then filled with cleaner... when i start it runs on 2 without cold start, with cold start, intermitant 3/4 till warm then fine, smokes unburnt fuel till up to temp (half way on temp guage)... up to temp seems fine, when it's cold not very happy... glow plug light on dash comes on but will not turn off till i crank the engine even if i leave the ignition on for 30 secs, ample time for plugs to get to temp... i have two relays in the box in the bay, i have checked the big one but not the little one, is this also part of the cold start system? fuse is fine.. bus has been sitting for 18 months, with the same fuel in it, has been driven approximatly every12 weeks to clean off the brakes, the engine is a 1,6d "CR" from a mk1 golf? have no idea on milage of engine, not original, already in bus when i bought it... have included and photo of the barrel when apart to show what i think is the poor cylinder far left... now im thinking i should have compression tested it, still think its something todo with the cold start though... only white smoke comes out (unburnt fuel) not blue (oil).. think i've covered everything... i'll supply anymore info if i can...

here is a link to the bus with the engine running, fully up to temp, no cold start... all ok, looks and sounds good to me... just when it's cold she's not really not happy 2, then 3, then all 4 intermitantly...

http://youtu.be/80cz-DG7NUQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sounds suspicious that that the glowplug light isn't going out, mine does take about 10 seconds to go out but eventually does go out. If you leave the plugs on for 10 secs, turn ignition off and then allow another ten secs on the glow plugs does start any easier?

I am not expert but this sounds similar to a problem I had with another car where the glowplugs werent all getting hot enough due to the replacement plugs being too short.

Try advancing the pump timing. Sounds like it might be running retarded.
Need to rotate pump towards the rocker cover for advance.

Glow plug issue sounds like an electrical problem for sure. Have you put a multimeter on the glow plugs to test the resistance and voltage?

For reference.

Hello,

glow plug light duration time is governed by the coolant temperature sender - is this connected up correctly to the relay? It sounds to me like that's disconnected. What happens if you use the cold start lever? Sounds to me like your timing at start is quite retarded, but I may be wrong.

"when i start it runs on 2 without cold start, with cold start, intermitant 3/4 till warm then fine"

apologies - read it too quickly and also didn't see there was already a reply advising advancing the timing from v-lux...

thanks for the paperwork on checking the plugs, will be on that first thing saturday... i have two temp senders, one on the side of the block by the glow plugs in that plastic 3way water t piece thing, and one on the back of the head (which is disconected)... only ever had the one connected, thought it was just a left over from when the engine was changed... is two the norm? also second relay (the smaller one) in engine bay fuse box, what's it for? thanks for the help dudes, i'll get to the bottom of this eventually...

and pump timing... not into just turn the pump towards the rocker to adv timing... i'd prefer numbers and figures so i can check what i have and fix it properly rather than having a "that'll do" approach... just the way i work, spot on or not at all, i have torqued every nut and bolt i have touched, even the rocker cover, no leaks from anywhere first time everytime... i just can't do guess work, they don't guess at the factory... i'm not a mechanic and have no training but had a huge lego set when i was a kid... i do apreciate what your saying and your help but i can't work like that...

Hello,

you need a dial gauge to do it on your engine. There's a pretty good description here for example:

http://www.vincewaldon.com/?option=com_ ... &Itemid=28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but although you're opposed to not doing things exactly and correctly, on this one occasion for diagnostic purposes I would save yourself some grief and see if advancing it a little bit helps your symptoms to start with. I have done this while the engine is running before as you can get at one securing bolt on the far end of the pump from the timing belt.

that's what i'm looking for sir, a good read that... got some understanding now... think my pump could be a little advanced then... may explain why it'll hit the red line in top and pull over 85 (well, according to the sat nav), smoking the whole way...takes an eternity admitidly, fastest(lol) 1.6d i ever sat in... weekend jobs, pump timing and replace temp senders... i'll update this when i have finished checking everything and let you know what is what if i dont know what is what ill just strut What the blithering heck... cheers for the advice and i got a couple of things to check so all good dudes!!!!

I still reckon it's a bit retarded and needs advancing.

As far as the temp sensors go - there should be two (not sure where they are on your engine). One has white/blue which goes to the "T" pin of the glow plug as in Oldiebut goodie's instructions, and the other is yellow/red which goes to the temp gauge. It sounds like the one you have disconnected is the one you need for the glow plug relay.

Good luck sorting it this weekend

I still reckon it's a bit retarded and needs advancing.

Indeed, it wouldn't be displaying the characteristics that it is if it was advanced.

Before you go out and buy yourself a DTI, just scribe a mark on the pump and the mounting bracket. This will let you put it back to exactly where it was originally.
You can then undo the relevant fixings to enable you to alter the timing and rotate the pump towards the rocker cover. Only move it fractionally at a time.

You will be able to repeat this process until you get to the point where your rough starting goes away. At that point, lock the pump off and see if the problem persists. If it doesnt, then you know for sure that the timing was the problem and then by all means go buy a DTI to set it up as per factory.

Best to do some research into timing also though, as you'll find quite a few people choose to run their timing ever so slightly advanced above factory spec to improve economy.

Just get in there and have a go, you can always put it back to where it was to start with...

spent the day doing temp sensors, checking evrything is ok with the glow plugs, renewing the old brittle wiring and heat shinking everything...all the same.. so has to be the pump timing, it's the only thing left (exept for having a ballsed pump) have scribed up the pump so it has a mm scale on the side of it, i've been through the instructions and understand better what it is i have to do, and what it is im fiddling with's job is... tomorrow i shall twist and pray.. LOL!!! turns out i miscounted the senders, i have 3, 1 for the gauge at the front, 1 for the glow plugs and 1 for the auxillery water pump? for the oil cooler... i still don't know what the second relay is for next to the big tall one in the engine bay fuse/relay box on the back left on the rear of the bay... will post a vid tomorrow of my succsess (or failure)... cheers again dudes!!!