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Earth straps ?

Posted: 18 Mar 2013, 12:32
by lees
Hi All
just working my way thro a list of jobs and now going to change my battery terminal connections and earth straps, what i need to know is i seem to have 3 earth straps on the negative terminal all being earthed under the seat is this right?
do i need 3?, or can i have just 1, i am trying to solve my slow engine turning over problem have allready changed the gearbox earth cleaned all the connections up and replaced battery and starter motor oilite bush.
Cheers for now Lee

Re: Earth straps ?

Posted: 18 Mar 2013, 13:07
by Mocki
You only need one good clean earth strap, connected to bare metal .

Re: Earth straps ?

Posted: 18 Mar 2013, 13:26
by lees
I thought as much just thought i would check before i fit a new one, god knows how it ended up with 3
Cheers Lee

Re: Earth straps ?

Posted: 18 Mar 2013, 13:53
by HarryMann
The gearbox earth takes it from engine to chassis, but some cars also have a separate engine to chassis earth. I've often seen two gearbox to chassis earths, even done it myself when deperate; one for luck, so maybe that was the idea with your battery, but two for luck

Ideally on the bare metal of chassis, box or engine, indeed at either end of braid, use Holts NoCrode, Bulb Grease or Vaseline.

I clean a contact area of the starter and bellhousing and behind one of the bolt heads, just to be sure

If all that fails, re-check the Oilite bearing is seated true, pinion is a good but clearance fit in it, the starter is the correct one and that it runs free out of the car and the field windings are not breaking down (insualtion gone weak).

Also of course, so many people do not check their battery is up at the correct charge and voltage, simply because
"...it used to start just fine, can't be that"

Had one the other day, saying it was a sticky solenoida: stuck my Voltmeter on it to find just 10.8 V...

Looking for 12.6 V or more I would have thought, and ideally before final testing that it spins like a good'un, put the battery on a smart charger till it signals it is right up to the trickle stage; these are just so much better than a simple 4A bridge rectifier plonker.

For more info the Wiki on Tools, Techniques etc, Battery Chargers
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One last thought for slow or difficult starting, dripping fuel from injectors

Re: Earth straps ?

Posted: 18 Mar 2013, 13:59
by HarryMann

Re: Earth straps ?

Posted: 18 Mar 2013, 15:32
by lees
Done
Had a couple of hours doing a few bits will have to wait till tomorrow so see if it is fixed only does it when its cold
Thanks All

Re: Earth straps ?

Posted: 18 Mar 2013, 17:34
by HarryMann
Done


On a cold morning ...
Oil's thicker
Cold usually = damp, so if something's going to track it will
Battery starting amps well down when cold, voltage barely affected *

This seems the dogs' on lead-acid batts and temps, so I quote the source as Amy

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on the NAVITRON, Renewable Energy & Sustainability forum, and offer the link as they seem to be good at discussing such stuff

http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index. ... 4#lastPost

Amy wrote: Temperature Effects on Batteries

Battery capacity (how many amp-hours it can hold) is reduced as temperature goes down, and increased as temperature goes up. This is why your car battery dies on a cold winter morning, even though it worked fine the previous afternoon. If your batteries spend part of the year shivering in the cold, the reduced capacity has to be taken into account when sizing the system batteries. The standard rating for batteries is at room temperature ~ 25 degrees C (about 77 F). At approximately -22 °F (-27 °C), battery AH capacity drops to 50%. At freezing (0°C), capacity is reduced by 20%. Capacity is increased at higher temperatures - at 122 °F, battery capacity would be about 12% higher.

Battery charging voltage also changes with temperature. It will vary from about 2.74 volts per cell (16.4 volts) at -40 °C to 2.3 volts per cell (13.8 volts) at 50 °C. This is why you should have temperature compensation on your charger or charge control if your batteries are outside and/or subject to wide temperature variations. Some charge controls have temperature compensation built in (such as Morningstar) ~ this works fine if the controller is subject to the same temperatures as the batteries. However, if your batteries are outside, and the controller is inside, it does not work that well. Adding another complication is that large battery banks make up a large thermal mass.

Thermal mass means that because they have so much mass, they will change internal temperature much slower than the surrounding air temperature. A large insulated battery bank may vary as little as 10 degrees over 24 hours internally, even though the air temperature varies from 20 to 70 degrees. For this reason, external (add-on) temperature sensors should be attached to one of the POSITIVE plate terminals, and bundled up a little with some type of insulation on the terminal. The sensor will then read very close to the actual internal battery temperature.

Even though battery capacity at high temperatures is higher, battery life is shortened. Battery capacity is reduced by 50% at -22 °F - but battery LIFE increases by about 60%. Battery life is reduced at higher temperatures - for every 15 °F over 77, battery life is cut in half.

This holds true for ANY type of Lead-Acid battery, whether sealed, gelled, AGM, industrial or whatever. This is actually not as bad as it seems, as the battery will tend to average out the good and bad times. Click on the small graph to see a full size chart of temperature vs capacity.

One last note on temperatures - in some places that have extremely cold or hot conditions, batteries may be sold locally that are NOT standard electrolyte (acid) strengths. The electrolyte may be stronger (for cold) or weaker (for very hot) climates. In such cases, the specific gravity and the voltages may vary from what we show.


*There is only a 0.4 v difference across the 60 deg range. Hardly seems worth thinking about. So its all down to power Vs Temp, thus the Amps it can deliver when is being asked a lot of... i.e when starting!