Club 80-90 Forums

OK, so I have a syncro with a sick 1Z engine. It has been on VAG COM and shows that the timing is out, the pump has reached the end of its slot for adjustment, and I could do with replacing the belt anyway. Only the timing marks on the flywheel were not visible through the bell housing (JX ?)
So my gearbox has dropped a bearing, so is now out and heading upto Aiden this weekend. This allows me to see the timing marks Yay, only I dont have anything to line them up with boooo.
So anyone know how I can find TDC using the flywheel without the original golf bellhousing ?

This will be a good start to sorting out this not fully functional engine.

Thanks
Rich

You can set the timing using the cam. When the inlet valve on no.1 cylinder has just closed, and the exhaust valve on the same cylinder has yet to open, you are pretty near TDC for that cylinder on the firing stroke (viewed in section, ie end-on, the lobes of the cams will be at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock).

To then establish exact TDC, put a pin through the smallest hole in the injection pump into the hole behind it, and slide the cam locking plate into the recess at the no.4 cylinder end. Both these are available from Brickwerks for about a tenner - and will always be handy.

This is an excellent way of finding TDC without the flywheel mark, but you must be certain that no.1 cyl is on the firing stroke.

TDC is TDC ! Cam position is irelavent...how do you find TDC on a 2 stroke?

So....to find TDC properly....the positive stop method is by far the best...but with the head fitted is virtually impossible, next best would be to fit a JX flywheel and use your bellhousing to find the correct position, then swap flywheels back to your 1z one (I'm assuming it is a 1z one but show Aidan your inputs haft to be sure ) and mark it accordingly...also on the brickyard, if you search, a lot, there is a dimension to re mark the flywheel in the correct ish place.....and within a mm or two it's ok for the timing job.i would ignore all that above as it only finds the position of the flywheel now, and we know that's not in the correct position already! Set the basic adjustments in time using the marks and then tweak the pump to its optimum setting via vag com, go for max advance (85) as it produces the best results without going outside the vw specs.

Yeah - we know that the timing is out already, and the pump needs to move back along the timing belt a tooth. SO TDC is determined bt the crank and piston position
rather than the cam or pump.
I figured that there must a mark on the block somewhere to time the engine without the gearbox ?
I believe the positive stop method can be achieved by removing the glow plug, and making an aluminium threaded rod to replace it. turning the engine until the piston stops against the rod. Marking the position alongside the crank pulley or flywheel, ideally using a degree disc, then turning the engine the opposite direction and making a second mark. TDC lies exactly halfway between the two.
I was hoping to avoid this as I now have a mark to go off on the flywheel, but nothing to reference it against.
Basically like this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D506Tussvs

So no shortcuts

Thanks
Rich

Well yes...the shortcut is on the b/y....start searching for tdi flywheel posts and it might show up.


AFN flywheel will find it, it's 225 mm anticlockwise from the mark you have on a 1z flywheel.

Oh, and no mark other than the flywheel...at least not a reliable one anyway...did you ever get to bottom of the wobbly front pulley by the way?

The only way that I can think of would be to have some dowels made at the machien shop As the bolt holes will only line up one way, it should be a matter of doweling both flywheels together on the bench, transposing the marks.

To find TDC with the engine not attached to the gearbox, (or even attached to the box) rotate the engine by hand veeeeery slowly and gently. At TDC there will be a degree or two of rotation where the engine feels "relaxed". It happens because at TDC you can rotate the crank just a smidge without pulling the pistons up and down the bores. When you find it, mark the clockwise and anticlockwise limits of this slack bit, and TDC is exactly half way between your marks. Just make sure this is No1 firing TDC, and you're there.

That is the positive stop method...without the stops! I thing your best option is going to be to remove glow plug and make a stop like ou said from a rod welded into a old glow plug maybe, and stick a protrator to the crank, it needs to be right....not close to right but bob on.

Wow Colin - that sounds like the dark arts ! I can't see it working unless I pull all the injectors to get the compression down.
Nope, haven't sorted the wobbly pulley yet. Van is off the road at the moment while I ponder its fate. Gearbox rebuild is coming in at £2k+
I think I'm going to go for a second hand one and persevere - engine sorting, more welding, poptop, interior, new back brakes....
I think its worth it. My Wife is not convinced, the kids love it.
Alex - do you think the engine is good ? Just needs sorting ?
I fitted a boost gauge and its running about 1bar, so not as bad as I thought, no smoke to speak of, so turbo is probably good.
Uphill it will reach max power/revs, go to change up and boost will not come back in. Power drops off, change down and thrash it in a lower gear to stay on power.
It just doesn't pick up as it should.
Starting with the timing and ruling out possibilities.
Thanks
Rich

Rich

Have faith in the dark arts.

As I said turn it over veeeeeeeeeeeeeeery gently. All the compression will leak away as you turn. It is extremely accurate. And you don't have to remove injectors or anything. It is easier with the cam belt off though.

Hi, yes in theory I would go so far as to say your engine is good...would of died by now I think if it wasn't...but...I thing you need to remove the front pulley to ensure the crank is not worn, if it s ok and just the pulley then that needs sorting with a s/h one. I believe that with the timing set correctly and those leaky sensors etc tidyed up a little it will be as good as any, quite tough these TDIs.


What the big expense in the gearbox? Something must be spanked or is just all a bit past it's best...and why!


Did you find the timing info on the yard? I can do links on my iPad yet

Interesting Colin - I'll give it a try.
Still got the wobbly bottom pulley pending further investigation. I didn't want to remove the timing belt without having a TDC to work to.
Gearbox - crown and pinion are shot. £1200 for a new pair. Add to that melt down of bearings and gear spacers..Aiden said he would have to attack it with an angle grinder to get reverse off to split the box.
I have 3 options. Sell it as it is. Break it for parts or fit a 2nd hand box.
I want to keep it, but am unsure if a second hand box will last ? So add on the rebuild cost again to be sure, and its getting very pricey. Don't rebuild it and I could be in the same situation again in 6 months.
Hmmmmm still pondering my dilemma

Cheers
Rich

Ooooh nasty, big money for cwp, I did notice a good used pair on Neufers stand at Busfest this weekend for £350 I think...was a 5.43. Second hand boxes are a massive gamble but I recently proved it can pay off, but I also need to spend money on transmission parts as all though the cwp is good the main shaft and 3/4 hub are feckedalong with a slack intermediate plate and general tired bearings.

Can't you borrow a JX flywheel to find TDC, remove, mswap to 1z and re mark?