Club 80-90 Forums

1987 T25 DG.
I need to take a lead from battery under drivers seat to the engine bay. Does the T25 have a cable run/channel or will it have to go externally under the vehicle ?

Cheers

The chassis rails run front to back, but most often I have seen wires cable tied to the outside of the chassis rail, going through the 'tunnel' on the petrol tank. Depending on your conversion you may have an existing run of cable but to be honest once you have pulled all the interior panels off trying to feed it through you might wish you had gone external. just use some common sense, make sure you fit grommets where you go through metal, watch for contact with gear/handbrake/other moving parts, use wire thick enough to take the amps being drawn through it and fit a fuse rated lower than the wire as close to the battery as you can, and you cant go too far wrong!

Many thanks for the advice Hacksaw.

I intend to put a starter booster relay to help overcome the problems when the engine has been running for a long time and re-starting is difficult.

Would I still need to put a fuse on the proposed 60A circuit ?

Hi there, wouldn't it be better to correct this (uncommon) problem at source ?

Thanks for the comments folks.

I am relatively new to VW's, only had this camper since January. From the posts elsewhere in this forum, I understood that this was a fairly common problem with older vehicles and the suggested workaround of a booster relay was the accepted one. If there is a better way of dealing with it then I am all for it.

Again, your help is much appreciated.

Cheers

Hi i wouldnt be pulling those amps without some seriously thick cable, are you adding a second wire to the solenoid on the starter? I ve not heard of a starter booster.

islandboy wrote:From the posts elsewhere in this forum... and the suggested workaround of a booster relay was the accepted one.

I have been on here for around 9 years and I too have never heard of a "starter booster relay"

I (we) have certainly heard of lazy starting, that is usually caused by, in order =
A failing battery.
Poor connections on the heavy wires on the battery and earth, or on the solenoid and actual starter.
A failing starter motor.
A failing rear starter bush (it's actually in the bellhousing).

I reckon you should start from the beginning, tell us what the full symptoms are and we can then advise you as to what to do to fix it properly

I note you say "when the engine has been running for a long time and re-starting is difficult" and that is a little unusual, it's normally the exact opposite. Do you mean it only spins over slowly or do you mean it spins over OK but does not fire ?

Let us know

I have heard of hot starting issues before, something to do with failing windings in the motor?

Many thanks for your responses.

"lazy starting" is the perfect description of the problem.

When the engine is cold, starts brilliantly. When engine gets up to temperature after a few miles, again starts OK. It is only when I am doing a long run say 50 miles +, if I stop the engine then try to start it - turn key, initially starter tries to kick in - keep key in start position for a few seconds then it finally fires up. It's as if I am topping up an electrical store until there is enough to spin the starter.
If I am on a long journey and have a break for food etc for 30 minutes or so, starting is no problem.

My description of a starter booster relay is probably wrong.

I think I picked up the advice from the folks at justcampers and they sent me the relay with an instruction sheet.
instructions are to extend terminal 50 on solenoid with 28/.30 wire and connect to relay 86
28/.30 wire from relay 85 to earth
65/.30 wire from relay 87 to battery live.
65/.30 wire relay 30 back to solenoid

Hope this gives a much better explanation.

If there is an easier fix or I need to eliminate other causes I will gladly follow that route first.

Kind regards

OK, first things first, forget what J.K. said to you. They are well known in the T25 fraternity for selling duff gear and giving duff advice.

I would bet no-one on here has the modification you describe fitted. It is not required, if it was, VW would have fitted it at some point during the development of our vans.

However, we now need to discuss exactly what happens when you turn the key when the engine is good and hot...

Does it :-

A) Make a noise like it is turning over, but very slowly, as soon as you turn the key (like you would get with a flat battery) ?

or

B) Does it do nothing for a few seconds and then "kick in" and spin over like it does when it is cold ?

Lastly, When the engine is doing it's "playing up" thing, i.e. hot) lift the engine lid, get someone else to turn the key to "start" whilst you listen for a click as the key is turned from by the starter motor. (this click is the solenoid working, (not the actual motor) it is the same as a very heavy duty relay)

Let us know the answers to the above and we will likely be able to tell you where the problem is.

Thanks for the reply.

If anything, I would say more A than B.

Turned key to start, there is a definate click.

Hope that helps

Cheers

islandboy wrote: If anything, I would say more A than B.

Turned key to start, there is a definate click.

OK, A =

ghost123uk wrote:
A) Makes a noise like it is turning over, but very slowly, as soon as you turn the key (like you would get with a flat battery) ?

If you starter is kicking in as soon as you turn the key, but only turning the engine over too slowly (when engine hot) then it seems to me the actual starter is at fault (windings or brushes breaking down when hot). Under those conditions the battery should be OK and if it was poor connections it would do it when cold as well. So, in my opinion it is the starter motor. Note if ordering a new one, get get a new bush (that fits in the bellhousing as well). This bush should be soaked in oil overnight before fitting. There is an article in our wiki about how to replace the bush, it's a bit tricky as you cannot really see it !

These parts are best bought from Brickwerks =
http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/shop?page=s ... ory_id=123
http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/shop?page=s ... ory_id=123

However, before rushing out and getting a new starter, I would like a second or third opinion from others on here as it might be summat else I haven't thought of ! Anyone care to add their input ?

I am guessing the 'fix' that JK mentioned is adding a second wire to the solenoid as a temporary measure to diagnose ignition/switch wiring problems by bypassing it all, why they have it as a solenoid I dont know. But you can have a second wire as a test set up to diagnose intermittent ignition faults, if it works then you have cleaved the problem and isolated it to the ignition side, if the problem still occurs then you know it is the motor windings bush etc. Not a permanent solution!

I had a very similar problem a couple of years ago. It was the short interconnector from the solenoid to the motor had corroded.

You can often diagnose these kinds of problems by looking into the engine compartment in total darkness while someone activates the starter. The faulty connection wil light up like a welder. But take care!

Starter relays are a common fix especially for 6V VW's. No need to run a cable from the battery you take the power for the relay from the battery cable at the starter solenoid.