Club 80-90 Forums

Hi,

I appreciate that there are a couple of cooling issues reported on this forum, but I've had a good look and I can't seem to find one that answers my question.

I have a '87 Westfalia 2.1L DJ, which has got a cooling issue. I've taken it to a couple of garages and they have replaced the radiator, the expansion tank and a couple of the hoses, but I now see that there is coolant fluid on top of the engine cover and it appears to be coming from a connection near to the top of the expansion tank.

It appears that the fluid is being forced out of the connection near the expansion tank, as it's forced past the engine seal, which is new.

I am happy to have this part replaced, but my question is what is the two pin connection? I am unable to find in the Bentley manual and although it's never been plugged in since I have owned the vehicle, I assume it was important, as it's there.



I have attached pictures, of the suspect part.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Charles

<shrug> Nothing like that on our DJ.

I'd just swap that for a straight hose without the T-piece added in, and forget it ever existed.

The other question, of course, is why your engine is pressurising the cooling system so much that coolant's not just escaping but escaping under so much pressure that it's getting past the engine lid...

AdrianC wrote:<shrug> Nothing like that on our DJ.

I'd just swap that for a straight hose without the T-piece added in, and forget it ever existed.

The other question, of course, is why your engine is pressurising the cooling system so much that coolant's not just escaping but escaping under so much pressure that it's getting past the engine lid...

Thank you for the reply. I think you are probably right with regards to swapping out the part with a straight through. I've been having issues with the cooling for a while and I seem to be in the situation of swapping one hose will lead to a failure further down.

I really just need to find a garage that knows what they are talking about with regards to these engines, as it is costing me a fortune to get it all sorted out.

We are off around Europe in a couple of weeks and I was just trying to get it sorted before we go.

cmorris2104 wrote:I've been having issues with the cooling for a while and I seem to be in the situation of swapping one hose will lead to a failure further down.

Yep, makes sense. Something's over-pressurising the cooling system, so as you sort each weak link in the system, the symptom moves up to the next weakest.

Look on the bright side - when you finally get it sorted, it'll be bomb-proof... <grin>

Not seen a switch like that either, i am guessing it isn't original as the t piece is held in by jubilee clips not the spring clamps the factory uses.

Can you run the engine up to temp with the lid off and (carefully) look to see where the coolant is escaping from? The system should pressurise, although it is surprising it is finding its way past the hatch.

Once you can see wher it is coming from you can then start your diagnosis, it could be as simple as a pipe bocked or failing under pressure. Equally it might be more serious and you are loosing compression into the cooling system, the later can be tested by a garage quite easily with a chemical dye that changes colour if the coolant is contaminated with combustion gases.

Isn't Futbus down your way? (look him up on forum)

Cheers,

MM

mm289 wrote:Not seen a switch like that either

Looks very like the aircon over-temp cutout on my old Saab. But that was in the top hose between the 'stat and the rad.

If I had to guess, I'd say that somebody had started to put in a different water temp gauge, then realised that was a bloody silly place to put the sender.

hi i had a problem for ages with water leaking in my expansion tank i replaced the sensor and sealed it more times only to find there was a small split in the tank very hard to see until tank taken out.a new tank and no more probs.

hammy44 wrote:hi i had a problem for ages with water leaking in my expansion tank i replaced the sensor and sealed it more times only to find there was a small split in the tank very hard to see until tank taken out.a new tank and no more probs.

Thanks for the reply 'Hammy44', I have already got the expansion tank replaced with a new one, so hopefully it isn't that. I am looking at replacing all of the cooling parts, as it seems like I am chasing the issue around the cooling system, which is working out very expensive.

I would love to know if there is an easy way to check out the cooling system, without having to rip the whole lot out and replacing it. I have tried running the van hot, but I can't seem to recreate the issue, it just does it when I'm not looking.

mm289 wrote:Not seen a switch like that either, i am guessing it isn't original as the t piece is held in by jubilee clips not the spring clamps the factory uses.

Can you run the engine up to temp with the lid off and (carefully) look to see where the coolant is escaping from? The system should pressurise, although it is surprising it is finding its way past the hatch.

Once you can see wher it is coming from you can then start your diagnosis, it could be as simple as a pipe bocked or failing under pressure. Equally it might be more serious and you are loosing compression into the cooling system, the later can be tested by a garage quite easily with a chemical dye that changes colour if the coolant is contaminated with combustion gases.

Isn't Futbus down your way? (look him up on forum)

Cheers,

MM

Cheers for the response. I will try and recreate the issue again tomorrow, while running the engine up to temp, although this doesn't seem to recreate it in the past. I will be very happy if this is an aftermarkets add on, as it means I can remove it and replace with a nice new hose, which will work without any fear. The garage did do a test and told me that there were no issues found in the combustion gasses. They used the probe that it used for MOT tests, I did ask them to do the test with the chemical dye, after reading the forums, but they said it would accomplish the same thing.

I did drop futbus an email a few weeks ago, but got no reply. I will give them a shout again tomorrow, as the email might have got lost in the ether.

AdrianC wrote: The other question, of course, is why your engine is pressurising the cooling system so much that coolant's not just escaping but escaping under so much pressure that it's getting past the engine lid...

Have you fitted a new (decent make = Brickwerks) "Dalek" cap (the blue one. These sometimes don't release pressure the way they should and can cause excess pressure.

Also see =

KarlT wrote: Cleaned out the bleed pipes from top of engine. This was in one............



While the other was blocked by plastic, the T' junction hadn't been cleaned out properly. Had to drill it out. I'm sure the pressure build-up is what eventually caused the seals to go.

Go & check your bleed pipes, Just disconnect from engine & check that coolant can run out. If it can't look further

I have come across blockages in the "T" pieces 3 times (once on our van). It causes water in the left hand head to boil, building up excess pressure. This in turn puts an unfair strain on the notorious head to case seals (and you don't want trouble there !!) Usual cause, other than a build of of crud, is using Radweld or similar for whatever reason. I would check all those thin pipes and T pieces to make sure they are clear.

ghost123uk wrote:

AdrianC wrote: The other question, of course, is why your engine is pressurising the cooling system so much that coolant's not just escaping but escaping under so much pressure that it's getting past the engine lid...

Have you fitted a new (decent make = Brickwerks) "Dalek" cap (the blue one. These sometimes don't release pressure the way they should and can cause excess pressure.

Also see =

KarlT wrote: Cleaned out the bleed pipes from top of engine. This was in one............



While the other was blocked by plastic, the T' junction hadn't been cleaned out properly. Had to drill it out. I'm sure the pressure build-up is what eventually caused the seals to go.

Go & check your bleed pipes, Just disconnect from engine & check that coolant can run out. If it can't look further

I have come across blockages in the "T" pieces 3 times (once on our van). It causes water in the left hand head to boil, building up excess pressure. This in turn puts an unfair strain on the notorious head to case seals (and you don't want trouble there !!) Usual cause, other than a build of of crud, is using Radweld or similar for whatever reason. I would check all those thin pipes and T pieces to make sure they are clear.

Ah cheers for the reply. If I have half of the rubbish that you had, that would account for the issues.

Would it be worth me stripping down the cooling system and checking each individual hose for blockage then? I already intend to replace the part I pictured above with the original one and I am currently trying to find the hose that goes from the dalek cap, as I can't seem to find it on VW Heritage.

cmorris2104 wrote: Would it be worth me stripping down the cooling system and checking each individual hose for blockage then?

I would for sure check all the thin ones and the "T" pieces by blowing water through them (a hose pipe)

cmorris2104 wrote: I am currently trying to find the hose that goes from the dalek cap, as I can't seem to find it on VW Heritage.

That hose is not under any pressure, so any "rubber" (type) hose that will fit will do just fine. Your local motor factors will likely have summat suitable for very little money.

Don't forget that Dalek cap mentioned above can be faulty and allow excessive pressure to build up. Only buy them from Brickwerks as others are known to be poorly made.

Are you OK with bleeding procedures after you have lost some coolant during the above ?

ghost123uk wrote:

cmorris2104 wrote: Would it be worth me stripping down the cooling system and checking each individual hose for blockage then?

I would for sure check all the thin ones and the "T" pieces by blowing water through them (a hose pipe)

cmorris2104 wrote: I am currently trying to find the hose that goes from the dalek cap, as I can't seem to find it on VW Heritage.

That hose is not under any pressure, so any "rubber" (type) hose that will fit will do just fine. Your local motor factors will likely have summat suitable for very little money.

Don't forget that Dalek cap mentioned above can be faulty and allow excessive pressure to build up. Only buy them from Brickwerks as others are known to be poorly made.

Are you OK with bleeding procedures after you have lost some coolant during the above ?

Cheers for that, I am not too confident with the bleeding procedures, as I am a computer person by trade, but I've spent over £1000 to get garages to sort this issue, which is still present, so I am getting to the stage where I think I will be better having a go myself. I have read the posts on bleeding the system, which look quite straight forward, but I've never tried them and I have shied away from that in the past.

I assume the 'T' pieces you are referring to are those that link the individual rubber and cloth covered hoses, to the white/opaque hose that runs around the outside of the engine bay? Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but I am very new to this.
With regards to the Delek cap, I have a bright blue one currently, but I think this is an aftermarket part, so I’m happy to replace it. I have attached a picture, as it also appears that I am leaking fluid from around where the sensor it mounted, unless this is normal.



Thank you again for your advice with this.

£1000 to "not" sort a coolant leak

Ummmm...

Others may wish to comment

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes you have the "T" pieces correctly identified.
I would check all the thin pipes are clear.

Yes I would replace the Dalek cap with a Brickwerks one ( I bet they sell the Cap to top up tank hose too )

No there should not be coolant leaking from the sensor !
I note you mentioned a new expansion tank had been fitted (I think !) = if so who fitted it ? = It is not correctly fitted if it leaks !! Some folks use plumbers PTFE tape on the sensor thread, but I have never needed it. I wonder if the new tank is a decent make ? Some (many) on here have had issues with ones from Just Kamper and GSF.

ghost123uk wrote:£1000 to "not" sort a coolant leak

Ummmm...

Others may wish to comment

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes you have the "T" pieces correctly identified.
I would check all the thin pipes are clear.

Yes I would replace the Dalek cap with a Brickwerks one ( I bet they sell the Cap to top up tank hose too )

No there should not be coolant leaking from the sensor !
I note you mentioned a new expansion tank had been fitted (I think !) = if so who fitted it ? = It is not correctly fitted if it leaks !! Some folks use plumbers PTFE tape on the sensor thread, but I have never needed it. I wonder if the new tank is a decent make ? Some (many) on here have had issues with ones from Just Kamper and GSF.

I know and unfortunately I not exagerating either with the amount spent on this, it might well be more. I am glad I've identified them correctly. I will look for a post on the boards to see if anyone has removed and flushed the system out, to get some pointers. I've ordered the new expansion cap today from Brickwerks, I have also ordered a new hose to replace the one I pictured originally in this post and a new expansion tank sensor, which will hopefully seal, if not I will look further at the expansion tank.

I also noted that the hose the garage used to replace the one on the right head to the end of the pipe running around the engine bay (443121107A) was an 8mm fuel hose, not the 7mm hose that the part suggests, so I have ordered some replacement hose also. (Grumble Whinge)


I am still worried doing this myself, but I am getting the impression I can't make more mistakes than the garages I have taken it to have. It's just a shame I have to miss the Bristol show this weekend now, as I really don't trust it until this is all sorted out.