Club 80-90 Forums

Mudlark wrote:Take a look at the specs for the 1984 Passat syncro and I would put money on that format as having been the concept for our T3 Syncro prior to production; the passat syncro was in essence a two knob set up albeit through a single knob with two detents.

For the Passat Syncro concept to have been a format for the T3 syncro VW would have had to engineer a complete new rear gearbox, gear selection method and front diff unit. It was no doubt cheaper to modify the existing box in the same way they modified the Aircooled flat four into the WBX. The VC was a cheap option that is also excellent in use.

I am still not sure where the de-coupler comes into the equation, it doesn't feature in the quantum syncro.

VW used a great deal of looms when you compare an empty panel van to a Carat, for them omitting a wire would have been easy. My bus does not have the rear heated window wires in the roof vent channel. On a hand built vehicle it would have just taken one shout to the man with the loom to wip out the wires surly? How many synros are there? times that by the cost of the wires, plugs and cable ties and someone to install them, would they really want to loose that potential profit saving?

Is someone able to get any info on the pre production syncros that did use decouplers. were the just running a solid shaft? That would have bee the cheapest solution.

It is this mystery around them that adds to the appeal for me. As they sure work well, I like driver input, on an old vehicle it is what makes it charming. On snow and ice seeing what grip you have available in 2wd is sometimes a help. It is fun in 2wd, and and you can use driver skill for as long as it lasts.

Has anyone asked on a german forum for the definitive answer rather than our own interpretations

Mudlark wrote:
I would not be surprised to learn that the VC came to prominence as the vehicle was under test and the VW Board's decision was to change to it for production and leave the now redundant decoupler cone and associated wiring in situ.

I would have thought that the extensive Saharan testing by VW reveled the weakness of a standard VC for coping in soft sand conditions. A better option in my mind would have gone for a more aggressive VC with de-coupler. But that level of driver input is a negative to most, but a positive to me.

Are there any other examples of manufacturers leaving redundant pre production looms in vehicles. Where are all the other redundant pre production items situated on our vans, or was it just the decoupler.

The T4 VC is even weaker than ours, to aid having a normal drive on road situations. The enthusiastic creators of the T3 Syncro would have wanted an aggressive as possible VC for off roading, and then milder for road. It is a shame they could not have come up with a two stage VC. My kangoo decouples, when it is not needed, There are no saftey implications in this.

syncropaddy wrote:
99% correct .... if your VC is tight then its not a de coupler that you need, its a new VC. Simples ....

The perfect situation for me is an aggressive VC and a decoupler. Works better on road, and off road than a standard VC.

There are a lot of 2wd T3 out there which manage just fine off road, and they seem to handle and stop ok.

1990 in Scotland working for Grampian Tree care forest creation.


This is just my experience. Our first syncro a 1987 caravelle had 2 complete sets of CV joints prior to 100,000 miles one leaving us stranded on the Isle of Skye in 1991.




It had a slightly tight VC, but then it always had. A new VC back then was a great deal of money. I remember the rear diff lock actuator went, it took VW an age to work out why, they were very pleased with themselves. I am still sure to this day that the diff lock actuator taken off was black and green.

Please note nothing I state here is anything other than conjecture.

Loving the haircut Simon!

Harald Holecek would have been the one who could have answered those questions I should think, who either worked at Graz or had several friends that worked at SDP on the Syncro engineering

Unfortunately he departed this world a couple of years ago I believe.

We could ask Christoph and others what they know, but the danger is that rumour & myth have become ingrained and that the gospel that we've all heard being preached or the bible we've all read are themselves conjecture or plain wrong.

v-lux wrote:Loving the haircut Simon!

Oh to be young again, I was trying to convince louise to move to Scotland with me ( by doing a grand tour by syncro)after we had only known each other 6 months. She came and is still here , my hair spent 5 years getting longer. I would look like Bill Bailey if I still had it!

syncrosimon wrote: Are there any other examples of manufacturers leaving redundant pre production looms in vehicles. Where are all the other redundant pre production items situated on our vans, or was it just the decoupler.

There are many examples of vehicles with redundant sections of wiring looms driving around on our roads. May I suggest you pull the centre console out of a UK spec Mercedes W124 and have a look. There at least six connectors clipped back and going nowhere. My Syncro has fog light wiring and headlamp wash wiring but is fitted with neither. There are also two connectors in the rear lamp circuit loom for which I have no idea what they are for. My vehicle, like a few on this forum is German spec and so might have a few little things left on that would not be found on RHD vehicles. In the case of the Syncro diff lock circuit, the most likely scenario is that the loom for the difflock circuit (251 971 083G) which includes the tank sender circuit and additional heater was signed off as a production part. The cost to change this and remove two wires and a connector, redesign, re-homologate far out weighs the cost of leaving it in. Its the paper trail that costs the money and the decision to ditch the de coupler from production (assuming VW had decided it was going to be a production item and we have no proof of that) was made at such a late stage that it was too late to change.
There are examples on the T3 where a separate loom is used for non standard items. Rear window wash/wipe, ABS, cruise control and electric mirrors are a few examples where separate looms are specified. However, if you look hard enough most of these secondary looms will plug into the main basic loom at some point. These looms are quite big (multicircuit eg. electric mirrors ) and are dedicated whereas the difflock loom isnt as it is a very simple loom.
I broke a very high spec Caravelle Auto with Air Con, ABS, electric mirrors, central locking, rear wash/wipe, extra interior lights and the amount of extra looms was amazing

Mudlark wrote: the benefits of permanent four wheel drive are what i value so a new VC is what i bought.

To each their own

This is my point, what did you use the 4 wheel drive for on the autoroute, it just is not necessary. How does the vast majority of people get by with 2wd vehicles. This is why I like the decoupler, a simple analogy would be heating a room in your house that you never use, pointless. Permanent 4x4 is only a benefit in a very few occasions, or else are we saying that a 2wd transporter is dangerous or compromised.

Mudlark wrote: the benefits of permanent four wheel drive are what i value so a new VC is what i bought.

To each their own

Indeed. A decoupler isn't much use if the VC has failed open. A syncro needs a properly working VC first and foremost, the deco is in retrospect, a useful addition for longevity of the drivetrain and the versatility of the vehicle as a whole.
Surely that is the whole point of the VW Transporter anyway, going right back to Pon's embryonic concept sketch?
Versatility. A common platform with many variants and I would go so far as to say that a well-specced syncro caravelle is the very essence of this.

Hehehehe... I am not bothering reading anymore about de-couplers as its the same old boring round about going round, and round, and round...

Nobody takes their van off road and uses it properly anyway

jed

I have to agree with Jed..

This is really starting bore the t1ts off me............ (by the way thanks. . I needed to lose my "moobs")

There really are other inane things to worry about than the very old and tired vc/decoupler debate.......

Like.......
dwheezil/petrol
factory orignal/VAG upgrade
VAG/other
BFG/other
Wine/beer/cider/spirits/meths
Black/white
left/right
up/down
in/out


See ya...............

jed the spread wrote:Nobody takes their van off road and uses it properly anyway

jed

Drove mine so hard I broke it first time offroad
And yes this is really really really boring but so is the orifice today.
Time for some curry
Simon - you forgot about Proddy vs. Popefans - or is this the same thing?

Hallelujah!

From a womans perspective reading this thread, you ALL appear to be experts on the subject, you are ALL right, ALL have an opinion, contradict and argue with each other, its childish! I haven't seen so much b itching since working in a hairdressers! Welcome to club 80-90! Lovely place.

Bring on the next round....Usual names will appear I am sure.

ps. I'm not apologising for the rant..I've got the painters in....what is your excuse?