Club 80-90 Forums

I take it most of the issues people have with our fuel system setups is generally all before the fuel filter? You would like to think the filter has stopped any crud going further along the system into the fuel rail etc?

Did you try starting the van without the petrol cap on? That will rule out any vacuum related problems in the tank.

mshaw1980 wrote:It seems genuine, box, seal etc. Supplier also swapped it no questions asked. I am going to cut the old fuel filter open like you suggested to check that. Hoping that maybe the problem as I have just been thinking back and I am thinking that the fuel filter was not replaced after I changed from the old carburettor tank to the injection one after the conversion. Thought I had but with the amount of projects, work, kids etc going on would have been an easy one to overlook.

Was the hose from the tank to the pump replaced?

Missed the earlier reply:

Carb fuel filters and FI filters are very different beasts, one's small and plastic while the others big and in a metal tube with proper fittings. 30 seconds to check

Hello

Will answer a few questions here:

No I havent tried running the van without the petrol cap but will try it tomorrow.

Not replaced the hose to the pump. 12mm bore, more than enough fuel coming out of that, I know this from changing the pump and not angling and clamping the hose in time before getting covered in petrol.

I know the difference between carb and injection filters so no confusion there. I put a new fuel filter on today. Interesting when I poured the fuel out the old filter, some dirty fuel and rust particles emerged before clean fuel once again. I wonder if parking the van facing downhill so gravity doesnt flood the pump with fuel causes condensation to rust the internals of the pump? Unless the rust particles I saw were from the old fuel tank.

Glad I changed the filter but didnt seem particularly restricted in terms of flow but I suppose I wouldn't know for sure without running a flow test.

Van ran fine today and started without issues. Still getting knock sensor code coming on though which is annoying as I can tell its lacking power. May need to test for further unmetered air leaks.

Filters only significantly restrict flow when they are blocked with crud.

I thought you went DG > EJ20, so you would have had a carb filter on before. As you removed an FI filter today, you must have put one on when you fitted the EJ20. Does that make sense ?

If it does, then that rust has come out of the system when the FI has been fitted. You should not have seen any dirty fuel or rust.

The pump should remain full of fuel at all times, the angle you park at shouldn't make a difference as it doesn't drain / syphon so there's no condensation to worry about, except condensation in the fuel tank itself

What's the OBD code you are seeing

have you got a cat fitted, and can you read the lambda values ?

[quote="937carrera"]Filters only significantly restrict flow when they are blocked with crud.

I thought you went DG > EJ20, so you would have had a carb filter on before. As you removed an FI filter today, you must have put one on when you fitted the EJ20. Does that make sense ?

If it does, then that rust has come out of the system when the FI has been fitted. You should not have seen any dirty fuel or rust.

The pump should remain full of fuel at all times, the angle you park at shouldn't make a difference as it doesn't drain / syphon so there's no condensation to worry about, except condensation in the fuel tank itself

Yes I changed the DG fuel filter for an injection filter after the engine swap however I ran the old carburettor tank for a while with the smaller tank outlet which caused my first pump to be very noisy and die quickly. I then swapped the tank for a fuel injection one but left the first fuel injection filter in place thinking it would be ok as had not done hardly any mileage. This probably caused the dirt in the filter.

Fault code 22 is knock sensor. Have tested voltage to it from ecu and resistance tested (is at the lower end of acceptable resistance vslues) it and appears to be in spec. Have fixed an air leak I had and put a new lambda on and now no longer get a 32 lambda fault code. I dont like buying parts based on fault codes but it appears I may need to get a new knock sensor as all else seems ok

Ah, so that perhaps helps with the historical failures. If the flow through the old tank > pump line was insufficient then that could lead to cavitating / overheating of that first pump. Probably low pressure too which would give a lean mixture, depending on how the fuelling works with lambda adjustment in the ECU. There is probably a limit to the deviation from the standard fuelling map.

You threw me at first as I am used to 4 digit error codes, but this seems to be the scooby way. Have a look at this thread http://www.uklegacy.com/forums/index.ph ... e-code-22/ which includes the diagnostic before replacing

By all means check for unmetered air, is the engine running hot? Lean mixture will give a lack of power and hot running, but the knock signals could cause the ECU to retard the timing, giving lack of power. By now you are thinking maybe I could just unplug the knock sensor........ but you should do the tests first

You should also do a flow test on the pump, measuring at the tank return, engine not running. Only then can you be sure it's working as it should.

Can you read the live lambda values with your OBD reader, that's the best way to check mixture if you can

937carrera wrote:Ah, so that perhaps helps with the historical failures. If the flow through the old tank > pump line was insufficient then that could lead to cavitating / overheating of that first pump. Probably low pressure too which would give a lean mixture, depending on how the fuelling works with lambda adjustment in the ECU. There is probably a limit to the deviation from the standard fuelling map.

You threw me at first as I am used to 4 digit error codes, but this seems to be the scooby way. Have a look at this thread http://www.uklegacy.com/forums/index.ph ... e-code-22/ which includes the diagnostic before replacing

By all means check for unmetered air, is the engine running hot? Lean mixture will give a lack of power and hot running, but the knock signals could cause the ECU to retard the timing, giving lack of power. By now you are thinking maybe I could just unplug the knock sensor........ but you should do the tests first

You should also do a flow test on the pump, measuring at the tank return, engine not running. Only then can you be sure it's working as it should.

Can you read the live lambda values with your OBD reader, that's the best way to check mixture if you can

Unfortunately the engine is obd1 and I dont have the expensive software to read the live data. Reading the fault codes by led flashes is fine, live data not so.

Cut old fuel pump open and found this....glad we have fuel filters :-/

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It did its job!

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But all that carp has had to go through the pump first, strange system that doesn't protect the pump at all.

Oldiebut goodie wrote:But all that carp has had to go through the pump first, strange system that doesn't protect the pump at all.

Good point.

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Hopefully all that crap was from the old carburettor tank although may change the filter again in a few months and cut that open to see.

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When I suggested cutting the filter open I did not expect to see such a disaster. That's really bad. Carbs are far more forgiving of crud.

I would run it for just a couple of weeks and then change the filter again. If it's clean you know you are OK and it isn't going to cost you another pump. If it isn't, well, you'll be back !

Once upon a time I had a car which was so much on the edge of the performance envelope I changed the fuel filter every 100 miles or so - not a road car. I think I still have half a dozen spares in a bag somewhere

You should also do the flow test and knock sensor test / replacement. Flow will have been restricted with that filter