Club 80-90 Forums

ninja.turtle007 wrote:

Aidan wrote:
Mike Ghia has said he'd never do it again, Russel won't do them......k

I presume this is 2.5 tdi not 1.9tdi?

yes 2.5 5 cyl diesels in a syncro = no, in a 2wd, probably not either there's better cheaper easier alternatives
yes the 2.5 produces a lot of torque even standard and easily upped into silly numbers, remember the rest of the transmission is rated at less than 200Nm and 14"205 or max 16"x7.5 tyres with suitable reinforcement -
you could spend £10k and still not have as solidly reliable a set up as original, and barely any better in any situation, every action has an equal and opposite action

You know I won't go derv Aidan just finishing the thought, as it were.

if it were me I would use the k jet off a 2.2 5 pot, and go lambda controlled for LPG

Bigger tank.. it wont go underneath.. anything that will is compromised...
My custom long tank fits und a std velle back seat and hols 76L of gas...

k-jet might as well put it on a carb!
Fully dual-mapped is the way forward, with a re-worked inlet manifold inspired by the mighty Shazzer's ADY
Got a spare one of those big tanks knocking about then Si? What do you mean no? You tease...I guess that it's a 4-hole to get the height under the bench and so it doesn't take half an hour to fill up

The T3 box can easily handle the 5 TDI BUT!!!!! you need to get your gearing wright. If you try to reduce your revs to much the torque will eat boxes.
You will get the same with the 4 TDI.
You need a balance of driving with torque and HP {revs}
I dont fit the 5TDI due to cost efficiency, lack of space,i dont need to say i did it. A good electronic AFN can easily be tuned, is lighter, smaller, more parts availability, and at the end of the day will produce far more power that is needed even in a very heavy syncro. In a 2WD the performance is well
Russel

Nothing wrong with K jet CIS... supremely tuneable and very effective when set up properly.. you wont be running on petrol very often with a bigger tank.. so whats the issue... .. Its Cost effective.... you can blow the 500 odd quid from the ECU on the important bits...

Under seat, possibly

I meant under the vehicle, as in outside, not worth it IMHO total compromise, expensive and a pain with limited capacity...

Get yer ass to SP and we can discuss...

toomanytoys wrote:Nothing wrong with K jet CIS... supremely tuneable and very effective when set up properly.. you wont be running on petrol very often with a bigger tank

Still hasnt got mappable ignition though. Whats the point of spending money fitting a equally as dated fuelling circuit for no gain? As you say , wont be running on petrol very often.

Am i right in saying you are running on an open loop system SB ? who fitted that, Fred Flintstone? I take it it was installed quite some time ago?

Si, K-jet is all springs and balance plates. It's out of the ark. The engine loom in the SA is getting pretty well cooked by now, so a re-wire is one cards anyway. That's if the mice haven't already got stuck in.

Come on now Elvis, let's not stir up the hornets nest! It's been thoroughly documented here and on Bricky and I'll leave it at that. It's paid for itself in fuel savings, I'm no worse off and a lot wiser for the experience.

Regarding the gearbox, after a thorough re-read of the Limey thread on Samba last night - I went brain dead by page 20 - MG admitted that over-gearing and oversize tyres, too much torque and the weight of a full Westy are all contributing factors.

On page 6 there was a rolling road test and the AEL - with bigger injector nozzles - was putting out 145 bhp and 250 Lb.Ft with a very flat power curve, if I read it right. That's 335 Nm!!!

That is why Limey keeps eating the transmission.

The reasons I had for considering converting to a 5-pot diesel was:
1. mechanically the same, so a bolt-in 1-for-1 swap then tackle the plumbing & wiring.
2. potential range of maybe 600 miles with just one fuel tank.
3. mpg equal to lpg equivalent with the convenience of filling up anywhere.
4. refinement better than a 4 (which I don't like, it's just my preference)
5. get the vat back on the fuel
6. unmodified engine, modest power/torque & all standard european VAG parts inside.
7. no loss of spare wheel or luggage space

To suggest that more can be had from a modded AFN is to miss the point. I don't want more power, it's about reducing specific fuel consumption with a 5-cylinder engine.

silverbullet wrote:To suggest that more can be had from a modded AFN is to miss the point. I don't want more power, it's about reducing specific fuel consumption with a 5-cylinder engine.

You are discussing fitting a 5TDI to your van so giving you the better TDI options is relevant is it not.
The 5 TDI in a T3 is a waste of time is my point when you can get all you will ever need from a far easier install. Not to even mention cheaper.
If you are set on fitting a different engine using your bellhousing you are better of with the 2.5 V6 TDI. Far smoother.
The reason why limey is eating boxes is because his gearing is to low so as a result of this when you are driving you use torque not revs.
I have for many years now used far larger tires on very heavy and lighter vans with tuned TDI's with no side affects. Exempt when driver error is involved.
Russel

Russel, I'm the last person to be questioning you diesel credentials! I'm just going through the though process for doing a 5-cylinder "like-for-like" swap without going power mad, which is all to easy to do.

Since the van in question was built for a 5-cylinder engine, with a raised hatch, big CV's and all, I can't see how would it work out more expensive than swapping for an AFN, for example where everything will have to be replaced?

Donor A6 2.5 tdi £300-£500, s/s exhaust complete £500, wiring £ diy (ecu pin diagrams available), chargecooler and pipes + alloy welding £300-£500.
Gearbox rebuild with 7-29 cw/p £1500. Is that everything?

Geared for 22mph/1000rpm in 5th with standard ratios on 205/70/15's = 65mph@2950 for £3000

Regarding Limey, that's what I thought I said in as many words? Over-geared and too much torque (all the time), I can't comment on the driver

If Simon TMT has got a LPG tank that will go under the bench and hold over 70 litres wet, then I'm absolutely sticking with sparks. Still need the gearbox doing though, as first gear is currently a waste of time.

As much as I would like to take up the gautlet and make a "sensible" 2.5 tdi package work and be reliable/durable etc, it doesn't really stack up with the transmission options currently available IMHO.

How long would it take to recoup the £1000 difference in outlay, through fuel savings alone over lpg, even if I did go diesel and achieve a minimum of 35 mpg anyway?

Sparks, coil-on-plug, full dual map is the way forward for this bus. I'm actually looking forward to getting stuck into this one!

just to throw a side ball. the 5 tdi`s run a dual mass flywheel i belive which if im correct normally gets ditched. i think this is a bad move. i love the 5 pots but there has been talk of crank problems when converting from dual mass to solid flywheel. they need the dampener. not just 5 pot engines. we`ve stopped offering the flywheel conversions on the newer cars since a meeting with the luk clutch tech rep. and some horrible case studies.

i`ve got a 7a lump if your interested. shove a set of bike carbs on it.

7A eh? 170 bhp of lovely 20v has it got a proper exhaust manifold on it? Slap up a pic and get them all dribbling...

install not done by me.

vaporiser