Club 80-90 Forums

Hi,

We tried clipping the jump leads from my Dad's heavy duty battery to my leads in the van and it wouldn't start. It had plenty of power going to it. We tried earthing to various different points on the van but to no avail.

Have you any idea what the other earth strap near the gearbox is? I may have another go at cleaning up all the earth connections and maybe replacing the copper starter bush. Looking on other forums, people have suggested that this problem might be down to timing issues or a faulty ignition switch.

What do you think?

Hello again,

just to be clear - is the van turning over? If it isn't even turning over, then don't worry about timing for now! Ignitiion switch is a possibility.... Just wanted to check we are dealing with the van not turning over at all...

Ewen

The earth straps link up any metal parts of the van that would otherwise be isolated from earth by gaskets, rubber mounts etc. Cleaning up any that are fitted can't do any harm. A bad earth connection will reduce the current getting to the starter.

The bush supports the pinion shaft of the starter motor. If it breaks up or is worn the extra radial movement can stop the pinion engaging with the flywheel but the starter would probably still spin over.

Timing is only a issue if the engine is turning over. If the ignition is firing too early (BTDC) it ignites the fuel / air as the cylinder is still a long way from TDC, this slows the rotation of the engine, in turn slowing the starter motor.

Was the starter new or 2nd hand? If it was new did it have a new solenoid as well? One other thing to check if it was new. Was the mounting flange and connections painted, if they were that might be causing earthing problems?

Hi,

Just wanted to let you know that I've sorted the starting problem today. I cleaned up all the earthing points, and where the starter meets the bellhousing. I replaced the connectors to the starter, then traced the wires back and found some taped areas with wires spurring off. I traced two of these wires around the engine bay only to find that they weren't connected to anything!!

I undid the tape and the ends connecting to the starter came off in my hand! The cretin who sold the van to me, and ripped me off big time might I add, hadn't even used proper connectors, but had instead just twisted the wires together with a bit of solder and taped them up. I'm surprised the van hasn't gone up in smoke long ago!!

So, that's the main problem sorted, now just the hot starting issue and the dramatically slowing down/dying when on long journeys problems to sort (as well as the dribbly painted rusty bodywork!).

Thanks everyone,

Cord.

It won't start again today!!! It was turning over right as rain last night. I don't get it!! It won't even jump start now!!!!! How can it start really well one day, then not at all the next??

Looks like checking the timing is the next step. How do I do it without a timing gun?

I'm pi**ed off!!!!!!!!!! HELP!

Cord

Hi Cord,

can you just clarify - is the starter turning over at all? BOXY explained the timing thing really well, and that's very relevant if it's turning over on the starter but not firing, but if it's not even turning over then it'll be something else.

If it's just not firing, but is turning over on the the starter, then given you have some dodgy looking electrics with someone apparently splicing the starter wire, then I might be inclined to suggest the some sort of home-made immobiliser or some such, so as well as timing, check connection to things like your ignition module etc...

Ewen

Hi
Just been reading through the thread. It may be possible that you have got an earth leak somewhere. Best thing to do is jump start the van and let the battery charge fully up and then disconnect the battery. Next day re-connect the battery and see if it starts. If It does then it looks as though your battery could be discharging somewhere. Assuming the battery is ok.

Hi all,

I put the battery on full charge for a couple of hours yesterday afternoon, then let it trickle charge all night. Just went out to try it and it started up straight away. Let it tick over for a few minutes then turned it off. Went to start it again and it won't start!! The starter does turn over very slowly indeed but won't fire. This is doing my head in!!!

How can it start perfectly with a fully charged battery one minute, then not the next?? The really ropey wiring to the starter has been made good with proper connectors, and the two wires which connected to nothing have been taken out of the equation altogether. I'm going to struggle to check the timing if it won't start again, and my drive is on a slope so I can't even push it along the flat.

I am rapidly running out of ideas (and patience!!)

Hi Cord,

if it's turning over slowly then at least you know the solenoid is getting power from the cable you fixed, so as has been suggested, the connection between solenoid and starter may be temperamental, or the earth is not good enough, or there is a possible earth leak from the positive connection to the starter. You can test for an earth leak by putting a multimeter inline with everything off and looking for current readings - it should only be a few milliamps, for the clock and for the radio memory. Disconnect them, and it should be 0 Amps.

I assume you have seen the tech stuff on the wiki here and the technical documents about the electrics and starting system here:

http://www.club80-90.co.uk/pages/downloads.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope you find the source of your problems.

Ewen

Hi all,

I just wanted to thank everyone for their help and advice on this. My starting problems are now finally sorted. After overhauling all the starter and earth connections I've discovered that it was the copper bush in the starter that was causing all the problems. It was a sod to get out but I stuck at it and finally removed it with one of the largest taps in my set!

Keep an eye out for me on other threads because I'm bound to need more assistance in the future. I was ripped off big time by the bloke who sold me my camper and am a bit out of my depth!!

Think I may have a dodgy split/charge system. If the wiring in the rest of the van is anything to go by, this will definately be wrong!! I have a Hella relay but have no idea whether it's wired up correctly. How do I check?

Thanks,

Cord.

another possibility is the actual connections between the battery poles & the connectors & when you put the jump leads on the current is direct to main cables,clean your connections to the battery, if it starts ok with jump leads your starter motor & ign switch & earth cable to the motor is ok

there are a couple of points here i feel .......

firstly, the timing will affect the engine turning over, if its too far advanced.This has a greater effect and shows up much more when the engine is hot.

secondly , often the cable from the battery that runs along to the starter is internally rotten, and thus high resistance, equalling low voltage.

there are a couple of points here i feel .......

firstly, the timing will affect the engine turning over, if its too far advanced.This has a greater effect and shows up much more when the engine is hot.

secondly , often the cable from the battery that runs along to the starter is internally rotten, and thus high resistance, equalling low voltage.

Cheers Mocki,

I've sorted the starter motor problems...bloomin' copper bush was totally worn out. Took some gettin' out too!

Problem now is that it keeps stalling on starting. Really struggles and is really 'lumpy' when I rev it. It's fine once it gets going, but then has a tendancy to cut out at roundabouts/junctions etc.

Hi. This reminds me of my own similar problem. My 1983 Dehler Profi turns over really slowly. It normally catches straight away when cold but not so much when warm. It starts easily with a quick push, (even without anyone helping me!) and would probably be fine if it had a starting handle!

Anyway, in the last few years I've had the alternator and starter motor replaced and changed the battery a few times. The starter motor helped for a while but now it's problematic again. I just bought a new Bosch battery which didn't help and when the RAC patrol came out to me last week he was initially baffled. It wouldn't jump start and was turning over very slowly. When he found out that the negative lead from the battery was red hot he said it must be the earth strap. He wouldn't touch it for fear of snapping off the bolt and he wasn't able to get underneath anyway.

I ordered and have just received a pair of ramps (£35 from Amazon) and plan to tackle it myself - tonight hopefully. The RAC chap told me that if the bolt does snap or I'm unable to remove the old strap I can cut it off and fit a new one elsewhere. He says that as long as it goes from the engine to the bodywork it should be fine. Does this sound right?

And could the van in this thread be simply in need of a new strap?

Cheers

Graham