Club 80-90 Forums

Red Westie wrote:

Ian Hulley wrote:I knew the history of our Elite engine .. it came from a very highly trusted source. It had had new pistons and barrels, supplied to Elite by the former owner, the heads were reconned. It was pre-set up by Elite's customer, fitted by me with help from a chum in lifting it in.

It was turn key and 2.5 years and about 50,000 miles later there's been nothing to report what-so-ever, which is why I have never thought twice about recommending them.

Ian

So? I'm confussed...a recon should be all of the above and more without having to rely on a previous owners generosity.
The reconditioning company should recondition the engine by definition....have I missed something here or are we saying you are only going to get a properly reconditioned engine if the engine goes to the reconditioners in a reconditioned condition

Martin

Hiya Martin, I can only tell you that Aidan (for twas he) sent his pre-loved Syncro lump in for recon and that he enclosed a set of barrels and pistons which he asked to be fitted by Elite. What the alternative was I genuinely don't know ... rebored barrels & o/s rings I suppose ? ... all I can tell you is that at least these were fitted as they were visible through the waterjacket holes and the sparkplug holes. There were no alternatives then and having seen a 'brand new' Vege unit broken down and seen the state of that and the parts used I certainly wouldn't touch them.

I'm in no-ones pocket on this one, all I can do is repeat that 2.5 years and 50,000 miles later I've had nothing bad to report back.

Ian

Red Westie wrote:

Ian Hulley wrote:I knew the history of our Elite engine .. it came from a very highly trusted source. It had had new pistons and barrels, supplied to Elite by the former owner, the heads were reconned. It was pre-set up by Elite's customer, fitted by me with help from a chum in lifting it in.

It was turn key and 2.5 years and about 50,000 miles later there's been nothing to report what-so-ever, which is why I have never thought twice about recommending them.

Ian

So? I'm confussed...a recon should be all of the above and more without having to rely on a previous owners generosity.
The reconditioning company should recondition the engine by definition....have I missed something here or are we saying you are only going to get a properly reconditioned engine if the engine goes to the reconditioners in a reconditioned condition

Martin

i am also intrigued. please enlighten us.

It may be that he wanted different barrels and pistons from the norm?

I had a set of genuine DJ p and b brand new in box and when they rebuilt my engine I supplied those and got a reduction on the price; engine had previously been rebuilt in SA and had been uprated, it was planned to be my upgrade hence the no expense spared rebuild; unfortunately I ran out of money before I needed to replace my engine (I still haven't it's fine) so I sold it to Ian as he wanted a good un, which this appears to have been, touch wood

Aidan wrote: as he wanted a good un, which this appears to have been, touch wood

Indeed, touch wood

Ian Hulley wrote:having seen a 'brand new' Vege unit broken down and seen the state of that and the parts used I certainly wouldn't touch them

Really? I never knew that - always thought Vege were supposed to be the good guys. I had a Vege recon unit fitted in 2004 and have had no problems with it.

Who ARE the good guys when it comes to recon engines?

You need to read the small print on Vega engines
If you LPG it the warranty is void.

Reconditioned, refurbished, rebuilt, restored; it doesn't mean a thing without a build sheet, parts list and a guarantee.
I've got a rather special 1936 SS (jaguar) straight six engine on the build for a customer right now and the bottom end has been dry-built (no piston rings but all as clean as a whistle - 2 days just to get the block clean!) around 10 times while we clearance the block for a ££££ billet crank and get the compression heights all the same. It's tedious work and no-one would be prepared to do this on a £1500 WBX, not at current shop rates unless it's at GoWesty
Cheap is just that and for a good reason.

Ah silverbullet, Ive done chassis no 2 SS100, 2 airlines and numerouse xk>>>delightfull engines to work with and agree with your comments, Id happy rebuild engines for folk, its not that difficult but does take time and as you point out you need the sheet to know whats gone into it..
mike

silverbullet wrote:Reconditioned, refurbished, rebuilt, restored; it doesn't mean a thing without a build sheet, parts list and a guarantee.

I've recently had my front diff rebuilt by Aidan after the grumbling got too loud for me bear. It came back with exactly what you say an engine should - a build sheet, parts list & guarantee.
Apart from adding to the value of the vehicle, I know that he's measured every gap the book says and replaced what was needed and the diff is good for another 20 years.

I know it's easy to say when I can afford it, (I know many have to run their vans on a shoestring out of necessity) but shouldn't we stop promoting the cheapest engine builders etc and start supporting those who do a proper job and actually provide value for money in the long run. I know some have had good engines etc out of the likes of Vege and Elite but from reading on here, there seems to be more misses than hits.

Come on everyone, lets support the proper engineers out there before they get fed up and disappear.

i agree.but what engine builders are out there that do a proper job.on these engines..

and start supporting those who do a proper job

Fair point. I had diffs on my mind after seeing Aidan's recent post wondering if the effort was worthwhile/appreciated.

There is tencent in the US who posts here occasionally and builds a very nice looking motor. Wouldn't want to pay the postage on one but would seriously consider it knowing he has done his homework. I like the wbx and would pay for a well built engine over a Subaru conversion.

Anyone know of a similar 'artisan' in the UK?

Rob, I will try and turn this about, I see engine suppliers or whatever you wish to call them offer a specific engine for a price, this price is usually fixed and dependant on the incoming unit being servicable,
So we have the scenario where a company offer to supply engine 'a' on an exchange basis for £1200. you send them your old unit and they return one that may have started out better or worse that your existing unit, so you may get passable cam bearings whereas a unit with shot bearings would have them replaced, which would you prefere.

The company wants to make money and have pitched their product/price accordingly and no doubt in consideration of other rebuilderrs etc, so what tolerance do they work to? there is a point where they decide that this is good enough and refit it, the less they do the more they make they have to make the commercial decision on how LITTLE they can get away with and still supply a passable product.

I have only ever rebuilt engines and the like on the basis of what is required or the customer specifies and never on a fixed price, that doesnt mean an open ended bill but its only when an item is stripped that scale of works required can be decided and costed.

mike

Precisely, I had our 'Brussels' 5 speed box refurbed by Aidan, I received a detailed verbal qoute when opened and inspected and when finished I received a full breakdown of all parts used, the % wear of all parts re-used complete with part numbers, prices, whether they were VW or replacement parts and a written guarantee from someone I know I could trust with my life and those of my family.

With the 2 'reconditioned' DJ engines I've stripped or seen stripped down .... 1 Vege with a receipt from the garage who had installed it less than 200 miles (but 3 years) before and one with DJ with a * on the end of the number BOTH had re-used the pistons and barrels ... the Vege had all the pistons and barrels numbered in permanent marker pen and on the * engine one pots 3 & 4 said 'good side' in English on them the barrels on this one still had the honing marks on them. Both engines had re-used the heads, both were cracked between the valves but not dramatically. On the Vege heads the valve seats were pitted as if they hadn't been lapped in BUT the springs etc were rusty with not being used for 3 years and this may have caused the pitting, on the other I can't remember.

Neither engine showed any sign of the crankcase recently having been split but the Vege one had a substantial amount of blue silicone sealant both at the base of one barrel in particular and all round the cooling system in general. This engine wouldn't bleed up and ran very rough despite the receipt to prove the mileagle that the former owner (deceased) had done ... it looked like someone had struggled and failed to seal the cylinder properly and used a tube of blue silicone in their efforts.

Hope this helps.

Ian

metalmick8y wrote:Ah silverbullet, Ive done chassis no 2 SS100, 2 airlines and numerouse xk

I'm trying to think if we've possibly met! We do a fair bit for Davenport Cars, mostly steering columns and waterpumps (our specialities) along with the odd engine.
I'm doing 2 "stretched" 2 1/2 litre engines (3 1/2 crank queezed in with XK rods and T2000 pistons for a nominal 3 litres) for a customer who is building a very good SS100 replica and a tourer at the same time
They seem to be moving toward completion... More power to his elbow!