Club 80-90 Forums

syncrosimon wrote:
Look at the cars you see in the Alps and in Norway and Sweden, I think that Clarkson said they have less 4x4 than we do, they just get on with it and fit snow chains, much cheaper than a 4x4 system.

Well, noone uses snows chains up here anymore. That ended in the mid 80-s... Actually 1/3 of the cars in my area (at least those less than 5 yrs old) are 4wd. But in conditions like ours it really is a big difference between a regular golf and one with 4-motion. Not so many landrovers, jeeps and such. More syncro, 4-motion, quattro and regular cars with 4wd. Not that most people even need 4wd, it´s just easier to get around when it has snowd 40 cm in one night and right when you are going to work it starts raining...
I wouldn´t have been into syncros if we didn´t have 6 months of winter

syncrosimon wrote: The VC is a brilliant idea, and if you have followed a Suzuki SJ or a Defender with an open center diff in the snow and ice you will see the benefits, but when doing a 2500 mile road trip where is the need?, there is no need, so just take the VC out of the equation and worry a lot less.

Agreed! Had three knobs on my previous syncro, a sika. Miss it greatly! Add decoupler = less strain on drivetrain. Pull knob when needed. I prefer having 4wd engaged in the winter, and of course on gravel and such. For all other on-road driving situations I think it´s better to let the car be in 2wd.

OK can I just add my twopenneth re selection and deselection of decouplers

there is no synchroniser involved so I would always advise changing at rest/just moving slipping the clutch wherever possible because the interlocking parts are splined and when engaged the splines are side loaded, if you are moving under load when you select/deselect then you will gently knock off the pointy ends of the dog teeth and selection especially will become increasingly difficult/tempremental and then you may have difficulty selecting coupling when required. I've worked on a few boxes that have had decouplers on for a while and it is quite clear that this happens, SyncroSimon's is a case in point; so no setting off up a steep bit off road and then part way up thinking "pooh I need 4wd" and pulling the middle knob then or driving down a road at 40mph and deciding that the rain is well heavy and actually you'd like 4wd; it's just like choosing line, speed, gear, diff-lock etc... much easier to do it in advance rather than when you are stuck

and that's why VW went for the VC and no decoupler in production, for automatic 4wd selection, no driver input required, and noone forgetting to do it when required

the very first syncro boxes had decoupler automatically engaged when you select G gear, but that adds a whole pile more complication. Driving a higher c of g vehicle on stiffer springs when in 2wd can lead to less predictable handling than the 2wd van, sure if you want to put the back end out and drive like a rally driver it's fun, but if you stuff it into a tree/another vehicle in such a situation some people would blame VW rather than themselves so again the VC system was a win win for VW and the USP of the syncro thing is the automatic 4wd selection

jacking the van up and running bigger tyres is more likely to strain some of the drivetrain components than long haul motorway driving on even tyres

sure VC has been superseeded by other technologies but they all use auto-selection/power split as a base and add difflock if necessary ontop

syncrosimon wrote:

syncrosimon wrote: I dont wear a condom all week just waiting for the weekend! I keep some in my wallet in case I get lucky. That's de-coupling!

Is de-coupling not AFTER you've used the condom?

Aidan wrote:OK can I just add my twopenneth re selection and deselection of decouplers

there is no synchroniser involved so I would always advise changing at rest/just moving slipping the clutch wherever possible because the interlocking parts are splined and when engaged the splines are side loaded, if you are moving under load when you select/deselect then you will gently knock off the pointy ends of the dog teeth and selection especially will become increasingly difficult/tempremental and then you may have difficulty selecting coupling when required. I've worked on a few boxes that have had decouplers on for a while and it is quite clear that this happens, SyncroSimon's is a case in point; so no setting off up a steep bit off road and then part way up thinking "pooh I need 4wd" and pulling the middle knob then or driving down a road at 40mph and deciding that the rain is well heavy and actually you'd like 4wd; it's just like choosing line, speed, gear, diff-lock etc... much easier to do it in advance rather than when you are stuck

and that's why VW went for the VC and no difflock in production, for automatic 4wd selection, no driver input required, and noone forgetting to do it when required

the very first syncro boxes had decoupler automatically engaged when you select G gear, but that adds a whole pile more complication. Driving a higher c of g vehicle on stiffer springs when in 2wd can lead to less predictable handling than the 2wd van, sure if you want to put the back end out and drive like a rally driver it's fun, but if you stuff it into a tree/another vehicle in such a situation some people would blame VW rather than themselves so again the VC system was a win win for VW and the USP of the syncro thing is the automatic 4wd selection

jacking the van up and running bigger tyres is more likely to strain some of the drivetrain components than long haul motorway driving on even tyres

sure VC has been superseeded by other technologies but they all use auto-selection/power split as a base and add difflock if necessary ontop

I agree with this twopence worth ..... I remember when Dave, Paul and I went out on our first 'group' jaunt in the hills near where I used to live, Dave was driving around in 2WD experimenting with his van. Then he got stuck as the van was in 2WD with rear lock on but it wasn't enough and of course he couldn't engage 4WD via the decoupler as he wasn't moving. Our first rescue as a group!! Then in SP 2009 his decoupler failed and he was stuck in 2WD for the event. I still feel that they are unnecessary and so, it seems, do VW.

Thought .... If you have an accident with a de coupler fitted, could an eagle eyed accident assessor argue that the vehicle was fitted with a part the VW deemed unnecessary and thus insurance is invalidated? Only a loud thought ...

I am going off them very quickly. This forum is awesome...

jed

syncropaddy wrote: I remember when Dave, Paul and I went out on our first 'group' jaunt in the hills near where I used to live, Dave was driving around in 2WD experimenting with his van. Then he got stuck as the van was in 2WD with rear lock on but it wasn't enough and of course he couldn't engage 4WD via the decoupler as he wasn't moving.

Right Andrew a few questions for you. Neil and I have been talking on the phone and we both want a de-coupler, but we have different ways to find out if we want something or not. Neil goes about wanting something and takes on board all the glorious things he hears people say about stuff and that makes his want one, were as I listen to all the negative stuff to help me go off an idea. Kind of ying and yang..

So we have just been talking about this position you say Dave was in, if he was in 2wd and he was stuck with the rear diff lock in the 2wd position and the only wheels that could spin while he was stuck where the rears, Why couldnt the decoupler engage? The wheels were spinning right? the wheels need to spin for the decoupler the engage? so what went on?

jed

jed the spread wrote:

syncropaddy wrote: I remember when Dave, Paul and I went out on our first 'group' jaunt in the hills near where I used to live, Dave was driving around in 2WD experimenting with his van. Then he got stuck as the van was in 2WD with rear lock on but it wasn't enough and of course he couldn't engage 4WD via the decoupler as he wasn't moving.

Right Andrew a few questions for you. Neil and I have been talking on the phone and we both want a de-coupler, but we have different ways to find out if we want something or not. Neil goes about wanting something and takes on board all the glorious things he hears people say about stuff and that makes his want one, were as I listen to all the negative stuff to help me go off an idea. Kind of ying and yang..

So we have just been talking about this position you say Dave was in, if he was in 2wd and he was stuck with the rear diff lock in the 2wd position and the only wheels that could spin while he was stuck where the rears, Why couldnt the decoupler engage? The wheels were spinning right? the wheels need to spin for the decoupler the engage? so what went on?

jed

Good question Jed but not one I can answer as I dont know. I do know, however, that once rescued he was able to engage 4WD. Now this incident and the one at SP 09 could be related, your guess is as good as mine. Aidan could throw some light on the SP 09 incident as he was involved at the time. I was eating Sushi!
I think Neil should get a de coupler and you should wait. So when it all goes belly up you can take the p155!

Bugger as this would have been a great argument against one that could back me up against not deciding to get one

Anyone else got any explanations why they cant engage while the rear wheels are spinning with rear diff locks on? Aiden? Simon? Dave? Russel? Anyone?

jed

Well as I seemed to have re-opend a can of worms, my reasons for wanting to fit a decoupler are as follows.

1. Even though I rotate my tyres check the pressures on a regular basis I still seem to get transmission wind up now and again for no apparent reason, not on every long journey but maybe one in ten.
2. When in slow moving traffic where engine is revving too high in first and in second I can feel the drive shuffling back and forward.
3. to protect the front drive train when not required

I only talking from my personal experience. IMO this is one of those cases where there there is no clear answer I think it comes down to preference and what you use your vehicle for.

Jed as for the van still being up for sale, yes it will remain for sale until major work commences this winter, my preference would still be to sell it, as once I spend the money on it I will be keeping for a very long time

sandwedge wrote:
Jed as for the van still being up for sale, yes it will remain for sale until major work commences this winter, my preference would still be to sell it, as once I spend the money on it I will be keeping for a very long time

You will regret selling such an amazing looking van, who needs to swing a cat anyway

jed

My de-coupler has done 40 odd thousand miles. Up until 3000 miles ago it would engage disengage almost instantly, what-ever-the speed or situation, but not under load. Then my A1 Transmissions gearbox started to fall apart, and the de-coupler became reluctant to engage-disengage. Now on the first engagement it takes about 15 seconds to go in, but after that it can be switch in and out almost instantly. I think I might either have low vacuum in the line from the after market pull knob, or play in the gearbox has worn the two halves of the coupling ring a little. I don't know, and don't care really, as I would always select 4x4 ahead of time so this is never a prob.

There is always some little niggle to let you know that you are in 4x4 and to remind you to switch it off, but when in 2wd you just drive the syncro like a normal car, and in Germany etc I forgot about 4x4 part.

I would always have a de-coupler as it gives you all the options. If the de-coupler fails and you are on a world tour you would just drive the normal route that everyone else does, if part of the 4x4 drive train fails then you are in the "pooh".

As Sandwedge says they are a personal choice, and my mechanical sympathy says that it is just not right to drive down the road with the front end at odds to the rear, it does just feel right when de-coupled. No other vehicle that I have ever heard of has this flaw, and flaw it is. The T4's get away with it by having a very much softer VC, then the system got dropped.

Not a cat Jed.
2 cats, two kids and 2 goldfish

I will have to get me self a off road caravan

syncrosimon wrote: Up until 3000 miles ago it would engage disengage almost instantly, what-ever-the speed or situation, but not under load.

When you say under load, would being stuck class as being under load?

syncrosimon wrote: Now on the first engagement it takes about 15 seconds to go in, but after that it can be switch in and out almost instantly. I think

Would this be the same "under load" with the new one?

Sorry about all the questions but its only through actual experience people have had with these things that I can satisfy myself enough to get one rather than jumping in looking through rose tinted specs.

jed

sandwedge wrote:Not a cat Jed.
2 cats, two kids and 2 goldfish

I will have to get me self a off road caravan

look at Gallboys on youtube

jed