Club 80-90 Forums

ajp wrote:Boilers and fire flues in areas of very high winds often won't draw without special cowls. Why would the van flue at speed be any different? You choice, personally couldn't care less how you run your fridge but the original question asked for advice. So I gave my opinion.

Not really the same are they?

jed

The flue works in the same way. If you have to much air current moving across the the flue terminal it can cause an eddy to form in the flue terminal. Then it just works like a plug in the end of your flue. I don't know what terminals are fitted to Westy's but if its the standard Electralux ones... who knows. I can't prove it one way or the other but its enough doubt in my mind that I'd stick it on 12v and not take the risk.

the flue end cap is designed to be used moving.
the shape causes low pressure around the vents, like a wing.

Plenty of differing opinions here clearly but I must say if I had small children on board (incl babies) I just wouldn't be contemplating anything other than 12v whilst moving. Little ones can sucumb to fumes much quicker than adults with potentially disastrous consequences and for that reason it'd be 12v for me every time. Mind you that goes for anything fitted to T25s - always consider the safety of passengers as paramount whether it be seat belts, gas or electricity. What you do on your own is up to you.

This has got me interested now so this weekend I'm going to do some smoke tests on the flue. Lets see what results we actually end up with.

In all fairness it should be pointed out that the amount of CO being released is probably little more than your pilot light on a domestic boiler. But the cc of the internal of a van is not that great so it could (?) still present a problem given some time. My early comments about fatal side effects were meant to sarcastic (maybe I should have made that clearer). But it only has be enough concentration to produce a drowsy driver and things start to become serious.

Kev I hear what your saying about the wing effect but I'm not entirely convinced. Still a smoke test will give some clear answers.


Results will follow...

ajp wrote:
Kev I hear what your saying about the wing effect but I'm not entirely convinced. ...

me neither.. I made it up, just an educated guess it being nothing like a domestic flue cap
why don't you call Dometic and ask them?.. pretty sure they have a technical dept.

personaly I do use it with gas on, in the summer. on the move.
If you sat in the back of an Autosleeper you would notice one thing.. it's dang draughty

ajp I know how you meant it hence why I was ditto dying

mike

I don't think co2 will be the issue, you could probably run these as flueless, with a high and low vent without any issue. For me its more the fact of a crash or something similar, and ending up with a open end and a flame thrower effect. Especially if you have the type of fridge that tries to light itself when the flame goes out. Now all of this is very unlikley, but i'm not a gambling man, my fridge works on 12v and i don't mind waiting an extra half hour to cook. If i want a fear buzz whilst driving, i'll drive around a roundabout fast

Westfalia says it's OK to have the fridge on gas when driving so what the hell are we argueing about?

Comparing the possible CO emmisions produced from a tiny single holed jet in a camper fridge to a domestic boiler that has a large multi holed burner is like comparing the methane produced from a mouse and a cow!
You are more likely to die from suffercation due to all the oxygen being used by the vans occupants! One thing is for sure, VW and Westfalia did understand about such things and all our vans were designed with multiple vents so even when camping there is a steady stream of fresh air, the volume of which far exceeds any possible CO build up.
In short....the small single flame of a fridge uses so little oxygen that it could not possibly cause a problem in the large well ventilated area of a camper cabin.


Martin

Why do they have a 12v option then?

Oldiebut goodie wrote:"liquid gas" = oxymoron

Lets agree to disagree on that one

Red Westie wrote:Westfalia says it's OK to have the fridge on gas when driving so what the hell are we argueing about?

Comparing the possible CO emmisions produced from a tiny single holed jet in a camper fridge to a domestic boiler that has a large multi holed burner is like comparing the methane produced from a mouse and a cow!
You are more likely to die from suffercation due to all the oxygen being used by the vans occupants! One thing is for sure, VW and Westfalia did understand about such things and all our vans were designed with multiple vents so even when camping there is a steady stream of fresh air, the volume of which far exceeds any possible CO build up.
In short....the small single flame of a fridge uses so little oxygen that it could not possibly cause a problem in the large well ventilated area of a camper cabin.


Martin

There are more than just Westy conversions out there. With many differant vent options.
The comparison was with a pilot light on a boiler not a running boiler.
CO becomes dangerous at levels above 0.01% or 100ppm.
One last point Westfalia and VW are as I'm sure your aware are German, Germany is still about 15 years behind regarding gas regs. So how good do you think they were 20 years ago? Just a thought.

E D I T: Just found this chart on CO concentrations, food for thought.

Concentration-------------------------Symptoms
35 ppm (0.0035%)--------------------Headache and dizziness within six to eight hours of constant exposure
100 ppm (0.01%)----------------------Slight headache in two to three hours
200 ppm (0.02%)----------------------Slight headache within two to three hours; loss of judgment
400 ppm (0.04%)----------------------Frontal headache within one to two hours
800 ppm (0.08%)----------------------Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 min; insensible within 2 hours
1,600 ppm (0.16%)-------------------Headache, tachycardia, dizziness, and nausea within 20 min; death in less than 2 hours
3,200 ppm (0.32%)-------------------Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes.
6,400 ppm (0.64%)-------------------Headache and dizziness in one to two minutes. Convulsions, respiratory arrest, and death in less than 20 minutes.
12,800 ppm (1.28%)------------------Unconsciousness after 2-3 breaths. Death in less than three minutes.