Club 80-90 Forums

Been some good advice on here already so I dont need to go through the whole thing but I will just add my one pearl of wisdom
DO NOT FIT 240v Domestic twin & earth or single cables to your camper go for the multistrand cable as a house doesnt move vibration will not be a problem but movement in a solid core copper wire will cause it to break
I used 6mm multistrand for the energy hungry circuits and meter tails 25amp to join Batteries and for the take off to the distribution board (12v) as its a bit of a distance from the battery also I have used automotive relays with control wires going to the switch panels to keep down the voltage drop or running long heavy duty wiring all round the camper now I can switch the fridge or lights etc from the driving seat or from the bed

Also if a wire goes through any hole in particular metal panels put a grommet in the hole otherwise it will cut through the insulation in no time flat
REMEMBER
If in doubt consult a qualified Electrician for the 240v side and a Auto Electrician for the 12v side

2nd most common cause of fire in Campers after the fuel lines is from faulty wiring/electrical problems

Thanks guys

I will chuck out the domestic cable immediately

I've just ordered more 6mm cable from the 12 volt shop with the intention of using it for the fridge and battery connections, but I will check out that first link 1664, cheers

I am going to opt for using the existing circuit for the lights I think... it's not the original bus lights I'm putting in, but very low voltage LED spots, apart from the one strip light, so I'm sure that should be ok. Somone let me know please if the strip light will be to big for the circuit (I think it's 1mm wiring) and I'll do it separately

I'm pretty sure you're right about the actual measurement... even looking at it myself I can see it's 6mm including the insulation.

I am hopefully having an auto sparks coming round to have a look at it all for me next week

And see now 1664... if Courgette did actually agree to the sharing thing I'd probably look like this: anyway... I'm a confirmed single!!

Bogwoppit wrote:I'm a confirmed single!!

Panic ye not - so am I
Let me know how you're getting on (still need to sort the relay(s)/fuses yet)

Doc, you could have saved a lot of typing if you'd read my previous posts.....

Ok... I've ordered more 6mm cable for everything except the lights.

I've connected the 2mm cable to the charge light on the alternator with a scotch block, which I know people say not to use but I thought it would be ok in this instance where the join isn't actually doing anything as such except telling the relay to work?

I'm going to use the existing circuit for the lights, so will the strip light be ok on that?

Everything else is going on the 6mm - I've got a proper little dinky fuse box which holds up to 4 fuses to use to connect the two (starter battery and alternator) cables to the relay.

Am I correct in thinking I can connect a cable straight from the Zig 'Car' side of the switch to the starter battery? If so does it need to be fused?

This is the relay I've got - 200 amps

These are the spotlights and this is the strip light.

Oh and lastly, does the fridge need an actual relay? And is it connected up straight to the starter battery or to the leisure battery? The leisure battery would be easier for me connection-wise... would it be ok as if it has a relay it should still only work when the engine is running and therefore the leisure battery is charging? Or is that completely wrong??


Nearly there I think

I've put them bits in bold, not because I'm shouting at you but so that they stand out from all my waffle

Oh Tracy, what did I say in my second post? Spotlights with 10 watt filament lamps will be too heavy a load and flatten your leisure battery very quickly, but you then said they were LED spots.... Since you've already bought them it's a bit late now but I'd strongly recommend that you take the filament lamps out and replace them with LED versions like this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0173934975" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; A fluorescent draws only slightly less current than a single spot does, but in order to achieve an equivalent brightness and spread of light in the van may take three or so spotlights being on.

As far as the fluorescent strip light is concerned, try temporarily connecting it and a suitable length of cable to your existing lighting circuit, turn all the other lights on and then give it a whirl – it'll either work or it won't ('won't' meaning the lamp doesn't strike properly and just gives out a dim or no light).. If it doesn't you'll have to run a separate feed to it. I believe this size of fluorescent draws a smidge under 1 amp.

The cable from the starter battery goes to the 'Car' side of the Zig and the cable from the leisure battery goes to 'Caravan'. BOTH of these need to be fused at 30 amps as close to each battery as possible (re-read my post about what cables to run and where).

Right then; relay.... As the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I have separate relays for the split charge system and the fridge fitted, but you can do both jobs with one relay provided it'll handle both – as your relay is rated at 200A I really can't see this presenting any problem. You can use a scotch block for the signal wire but if it's what I think it is, it's a 'one off' connection and you'll have to destroy it to disconnect it if you ever need to.

Looking at that split charge 'kit' you've bought it's designed to charge at 10 amps so I can't understand why they've chucked a 200A rated relay in there. 10amps quite frankly is next to useless, harking back to the good old days as I mentioned in a previous post. I don't know what size cable they've supplied but the crimp connectors are blue so for a 2.5mm cable, 28/0.3mm suggests 28 strands of 0.3mm = 8.4mm but it doesn't look that big. Has the reel got any other size description on it? Anyway, I'll assume we're sticking to the 6mm cable you've bought. You need to fix the relay to the metalwork under your front seat as close to the battery as possible - you'd be best to remove the seat while all this is going on anyway. The signal wire goes to one of the small spade type connections on the relay and a black from the other spade connection to the positive terminal or vehicle metalwork, whichever you prefer. It shouldn't make any difference which cable goes to which spade connector, but just check the relay for + and – markings just in case it's polarity sensitive.

You say you have a 4 way fuse block. What sort is it?

Next you need to run 3 x 6mm reds from the starter battery positive terminal to one of the threaded terminals on the relay., be VERY careful that you run these so as to keep them short and in such a way as to avoid any possible damage as they are not going to be fused. Be a good idea to tape these together too. The blue round open hole crimps that were supplied with this kit are too small for 6mm cables – you will have to source the yellow version of them and you will need at least nine (get a few more in case of "cock"-ups). The 2 x 6mm cables that you've run from you leisure battery (as per my previous post) need connecting to the other threaded connection on the relay, but these cables need individually fusing at 30 amps at BOTH ends and as close to the relay and leisure battery as possible.

Ideally, the 6mm to the fridge is connected to the same threaded terminal as the 6mm cables to the leisure battery but this cable should be fused at 15 or 20 amps as close to the relay as possible. The black to the fridge goes to the negative of the starter or leisure battery or van metalwork. I'm assuming all the other wiring I mentioned in my previous post has been connected – blacks, Zig etc?

Thanks hun, sounds good

I thought those spotlights were LEDs when I got them! It was only when I posted you the link that I saw they weren't! But not to worry, I'll do what you suggest and replace the filaments with LEDs

Don't know what sort of fuse 'box' it is... it's a proper auto one though if that's what you mean?

I'm curious about the type of fuses that go in the fusebox, we might be able to up the 30amp fuses to give your split charge system even more oomph. Do you know how to post pictures? I'd like to see a few pictures of the van interior and how you're running the cables, fusebox, siting relay etc as I'm sort of working in the dark at the moment. How do you intend to attach the cables to your battery terminals; same open round crimps as the relay?(in which case you'll need even more)

That crimping tool you mentioned - it's not the cheapo flat type you get from Wickes is it?

Bogwoppit wrote: Rotten old Courgette... I don't mind sharing!!

i dont know i go away for a week and look what happens

Lol

Don't worry Courgette, I'm only after his wiring skills!

I'm getting more round terminal thingies this week for connecting stuff to battery... now that I know the ones I got are the right size - when I went into Halfords (yes I know stupendously expensive and stupid but needs must!) the pair they sold me looked tiny, but are correct.

I'll see if I can get some pics of the fuse box tomorrow to post. As far as the wiring itself goes... you really don't wanna see the inside of that bus atm

It would be good to go up a bit with the fuses if we can - my leisure battery in Daisy has a 35 amp glass fuse... I was assuming they need to be around the same size?

One thing I don't understand is why I need THREE red cables from the starter battery? Is that if I'm using the same relay for the fridge? And if so, how does the leccy know which cable to go along? I can understand that I need one to go to the relay and one straight to the 'Car' switch on the Zig, but the third?

And also, you say these cables won't be fused? On the diagram I got with the relay, the red cables (from the starter battery to the relay, and from the relay to the leisure battery) are both fused...

Oh and the small cable I got with the relay says 17 amps on the reel if that helps?

Bogwoppit wrote:I'm getting more round terminal thingies this week for connecting stuff to battery... now that I know the ones I got are the right size - when I went into Halfords (yes I know stupendously expensive and stupid but needs must!) the pair they sold me looked tiny, but are correct.
If the colour of the insulation on the crimp lugs is yellow they are the correct size for 6mm cable. If they are blue or red they are either too small or your cable is not actually 6mm

I'll see if I can get some pics of the fuse box tomorrow to post. As far as the wiring itself goes... you really don't wanna see the inside of that bus atm
Oh but I do, it may help me to help you 'cos I could see the wiring routes, crimps, cable, relay position, batteries etc

It would be good to go up a bit with the fuses if we can - my leisure battery in Daisy has a 35 amp glass fuse... I was assuming they need to be around the same size?
Is your leisure battery the same type as your starter battery (I assumed it was) or is it a 'proper' leisure battery, ie deep cycle type? Is this fuse integral to the battery or an 'in-line' glass fuse in a tubular PVC housing about 3" long?

One thing I don't understand is why I need THREE red cables from the starter battery? Is that if I'm using the same relay for the fridge? And if so, how does the leccy know which cable to go along? I can understand that I need one to go to the relay and one straight to the 'Car' switch on the Zig, but the third?
No, there will be four 6mm's at the battery terminal; one to the Zig and three to the relay. Two cables to the relay are doubling up to supply the split charge system to give you 12mm overall and a potential re-charge facility of 60amps (2 x 30amp). The third is because you said you were doing the fridge in 6mm too. Technically speaking, two cables could carry the load of the split charge and the fridge as 6mm can take more than 30amps but three taped together is better for spreading the load and will provide physical strength and rigidity which will allow you to bend and shape the cables to avoid contact/rubbing against (and therefore potential damage by) the bodywork or seat etc.

And also, you say these cables won't be fused? On the diagram I got with the relay, the red cables (from the starter battery to the relay, and from the relay to the leisure battery) are both fused...
Ideally, they would be but there are severe space limitations in your battery compartment. You could, if you wish, run longer 6mm's from your battery and fuse them before the relay BUT the cables will still be un-fused in the sections before the actual fuses and if you position the relay as close to the battery positive terminal as possible there will only be a few inches of un-fused cable and probably no more than if you did fit fuses. IF your 'fusebox' allows it, you could run a single LARGE cable to it from the battery and have the 6mm's running out the fused side and a single fuse at the battery to protect the single large cable like mine in the picture below.(This is why pictures would help)
Oh and the small cable I got with the relay says 17 amps on the reel if that helps?
Hmm, not that big then. The 6mm should be about 3 times larger

As I said, there are umpteen different ways of doing this. The reason I'm doing it this way is because you'd already bought the cable and stuff. I have a single 10mm going to my leisure battery but I was doubling up yours to give 12mm overall. I also have a single fuse (the square bit next to the battery terminal in the picture) rated at 50A or 60A (can't remember now)



Look Tracy, if you want, why don't you get a few ice cold cans of 1664 in, a bit of cash for me petrol and I'll pop over and help you do it? My fingerprints are wearing off.......

1664 wrote:
Look Tracy, if you want, why don't you get a few ice cold cans of 1664 in, a bit of cash for me petrol and I'll pop over and help you do it? My fingerprints are wearing off.......

Seriously??? Wow, that would be cool!!! I'll PM you

Bogwoppit wrote:

1664 wrote:
Look Tracy, if you want, why don't you get a few ice cold cans of 1664 in, a bit of cash for me petrol and I'll pop over and help you do it? My fingerprints are wearing off.......

Seriously??? Wow, that would be cool!!! I'll PM you

HUMPH


you know im joking dont you ?

COURGETTE wrote:

Bogwoppit wrote:

1664 wrote:
Look Tracy, if you want, why don't you get a few ice cold cans of 1664 in, a bit of cash for me petrol and I'll pop over and help you do it? My fingerprints are wearing off.......

Seriously??? Wow, that would be cool!!! I'll PM you

HUMPH


you know im joking dont you ?

I have told him to bring you too!!

Bogwoppit wrote:Seriously??? Wow, that would be cool!!! I'll PM you

PM'd you back

COURGETTE wrote:HUMPH

Easy tiger..................

Bogwoppit wrote:I have told him to bring you too!!

Oh no there's really no need - she's FAR too busy