Club 80-90 Forums

It would be interesting (though not in mine thanks) to see how the simpler type of JK RnR bed holds up in a crash test with dummies on it. I suspect not very well at all. I just can't see the point in having firmly fixed belts and a seat made of reconstituted paper, held in with self-tappers. Somehow it doesn't seem a great idea as theoretically the passengers could end up squashed between belts and seat if it detaches. Its that aspect that concerns me I think. The belts are fine (no concerns on those) but to my mind the seat base should if anything surpass the belt anchorages.

The rock n roll mechanism should also have a proper lockdown of some description so it doesn't somehow decide to turn itself into a bed with passengers on it. Unlikely perhaps but perhaps something to be considered.

Either way this is a good thread and should answer many questions. It has certainly thrown up some good ideas and theories.

Would it suprise you tho that the only seat that is tested for security on an MoT is the drivers seat its only the belts that are checked for the other seats!

ttcharlie wrote:A mate does alot of work on very Rusty Campers (Split and Bays) ans has similar view on rear seat belts on flimsy structures. He is always geeting asked to put seat belts on RnR beds that have loose fit cushions! As hes points out, the kids will just submarine under the belt as the cushion flies forward.

Hes at the point where he refuses to fit belts in the back of them.

I won't, unless it's a Westy, or a factory seat.

I've also seen a scarey amount of seatbelts attached to cupboards, yes, just the wood, not even a spreader plate.

Hi,

Moved this comment to this thread as suggested...

Has anyone considered fitting 4 point harness' seatbelts to the rear seat in place of the lap belts? I am thinking of improving the child safety in the rear of our bus and it appears this could be an answer as it should be possible to mount directly to the existing lap belt mounting points.

I am sure I am missing something here; it really can't be as simple as it appears!

You can even get these belts with clips that allow you to remove them quickly if they effect the operation of the bed!

This is the type of belt I am thinking of http://www.kpautomotive.co.uk/clubman-h ... p-113.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (fixed this link, I hope)

What do you think, will this work?

Andrew

Posted this in the other thread but I think we all should be aware of what is and isn't adequate protection. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azgBhZfcqaQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think this is why I'm so keen to underline the security and safety of the rear seat, ensuring it can't tear out and the seat belts will adequately protect children. There are too many that fall far short of this. When doing any modifications inside, consider the potential danger of cupboards that might become detached and where possible bolt units down properly. I need hardly add that the strength and stability of any rock n roll bed should be carefully thought out. Cheap can be a pocket saver but not necessarily a life saver, and if you are putting children in lap belts, on a seat that is only held in with self-tappers, you may want to look again and see what you can do to 'beef up' the fittings and strength of the rear seat.

With the new rear seat I'm making, I obviously can't 100% vouch for its effectiveness in an accident but what I can do is make sure it is as good as I can get it using something more substantial than MDF and a lap belt. It a compromise to some extent with keeping weight down but bolting through the bulkhead with spreader plates would seem essential. A firmly fixed seat with secure and correct belts is a must in my view - more so with children who may not have enough weight to trigger a seat belt properly.

Fozzie raised an interesting point, it all depends on the mass of the seat relative to the mass of the passengers. i.e. you would be perfectly safe in a full strength anchored seat belt on an unanchored polystyrene seat!

So the more sturdy you make the seat the more 'dangerous' it becomes and the more anchorage it requires. As long as it weighs less than a person and is restrained by full strength seat belt anchors then fair enough making it strong. But if you are going to put in a steel seat and just bolt it straight to the bulkhead, without spreader plates, you could be making things more dangerous than a lightweight wooden framed seat attached in the same way.

Hi Guys,

It seems very clear that we all are concerned about the safety of children using the rear seats / seat belts in the back of our vans and it appears that passing an MOT test does not mean that their safety is assured (as far as the quality of the seat is concerned anyway).

I have seen that many people have been able to fit standard 3 point seat belts in the rear (currently I only have lap belts), it looks a fairly simple job on one side but having cupboards on the other side both complicates the installation and make the use of the belt more problematic I would imagine due to the belt having to pass within the woodwork. I think that this could also cause a problem in an accident as the cupboard could break apart due to any pressure placed on it by the belt.

I have been digging around the web for a simple solution and I haven’t found one yet. I had hoped that a road legal 4 point racing harness would be a great solution for children age 5+ when used with suitable child seats. I had anticipated that the belts could have been installed using the lap belt mounting points only and not have to undertake any additional modifications to the van but it now appears that they cannot be used in that way. Apprently the shoulder strap mounts must be higher up so as not to cause back injury during a bump.

I will continue to investigate but for now it looks like it back to the drawing board.

I hope we all keep working on a solution to this so that we can feel happier when we have passengers aboard.

Andrew

mirams wrote: So the more sturdy you make the seat the more 'dangerous' it becomes and the more anchorage it requires. As long as it weighs less than a person and is restrained by full strength seat belt anchors then fair enough making it strong. But if you are going to put in a steel seat and just bolt it straight to the bulkhead, without spreader plates, you could be making things more dangerous than a lightweight wooden framed seat attached in the same way.

Agreed, but not sure that would apply in the case of small children though. You also have to bear in mind that storing tools, jacks and anything heavy in seat base would change the scenario significantly. Potentially it could mean a seat belt has to hold the person, the seat and all the heavy stuff inside it. Any weight behind the seat might also add to this. I wouldn't want a seat up front held on with self tappers so not sure why the rear should be any different. I still feel it is wise to have something more substantial than some of the fixings I've seen, which frankly are shocking. I have had a rear seat get pushed forward once under heavy braking due to various items on the engine lid, which is why I'm keen to get it right.

As for belts, one person on here found a garage in london I think that fitted a horizontal bar at headlining height that took seat anchorage points.

Interesting thread. I know Pocolow fixed our seatbelts to factory anchorage points and reinforced the seat we put in (which is a JK R&R) but I shall ask whether he put extra fixings in when he fitted the seat to the van. I'm pretty sure he did, we had a conversation about it at the time. He also put some steel reinfocements in the bed/seat.