Club 80-90 Forums

Thanks for all the input folks.

@ Laurie - Interesting, I have been told the oil was only at low pressure in the head area ?

@ Fritz, not quite the same, this time there is no water getting into the oil, just oil getting in the water.

@ All, a guy on here has been in touch re the conversion to inline 1.8 VW petrol (golf motor etc). It is not quite so simple, you don't just need the engine X bar you need the T£ Diesel sump, oil pump, pick-up pipe, bell-housing and the card prevents normal use of the engine bay hatch, so that option is out now.

So it's back to either making one good motor over what I have, though this will cost some dosh (gaskets etc etc), a lot of time and might turn bad, don't fancy any more disappointments though, so I will just have to leave it SORN'd until either a half decent (tested) second hand DG (or V good DF) turns up, or until I win the lottery !

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If a head stud is broke or a nut loose, water ought to be getting in the oil... water system will be at a higher pressure than the oil that is draining back from the head... unless you have a lot of crankcase presssure and blocked breather etc...
you havent said there is water in the oil.. only oil in the water... if the head stud broke or nut loose then i would also expect it to start pressurising the cooling system soon too..

Sure it isnt burning/using a lot of oil and the oil in the cooling system isnt just whats "residual"......?

I suggest that you drop the rocker covers and have a look. There isn't a place in either the head or crank case that oil meets water at high pressure. However, the water pump may provide enough suck when pulling water from the heads to cause the sympton. I would expect to see the oil go milky in time.
I have seen studs stretched so that the nuts don't contact the head. Give them all a wobble and see if any move easily.

toomanytoys wrote:If a head stud is broke or a nut loose, water ought to be getting in the oil... water system will be at a higher pressure than the oil that is draining back from the head... unless you have a lot of crankcase presssure and blocked breather etc...
you havent said there is water in the oil.. only oil in the water... if the head stud broke or nut loose then i would also expect it to start pressurising the cooling system soon too..

Sure it isnt burning/using a lot of oil and the oil in the cooling system isnt just whats "residual"......?

No signs of water in the oil, though I have not driven it in the condition it is in, just let it run at a fast-ish tick over.

Not residuals mess either as I flushed the water out with special stuff twice and one can see raw oil floating on the water as well as the usual considerable white creamy mess. Plus the water level rises over 30 mins tick over by roughly the amount the oil level drops (as far as I can tell).

No noticeable crank case pressure and no signs on plugs or exhaust of any oil burning ( and it uses 1/2 Ltr in 30 mins tick over )

I will pull the rockers off and have a look as welll as checking the head studs as Laurie suggests.

I really appreciate the input folks as this has been a nightmare now for 3 months. At least I have the Scirocco on the road now !

If it turns out to be summat fixable I will be one very happy chappy ( though I fear it may be an internal crank case crack or similar - is that a likely cause ? )


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Laurie wrote: There isn't a place in either the head or crank case that oil meets water at high pressure.

Answers the last question in my previous post

Thanks Laurie

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The level in the expansion tank will rise as the engine heats. So the description of oil going from the sump into the water may be wrong.

First check inside the rockers. If everything is OK in there, drop the oil and look for water.

Ask the guy who built it what head torque he used. It should be 50NM

Put in a diesel!

Vanagonman wrote:Put in a diesel!

Err - no - nasty smelly under powered things that will not run on my LPG set-up

After careful research - looks like a "proper" DG/DJ (or V good DF) is the only cost effective solution. Only next time, one that is near enough to Chester for me personally to check over before parting with the cash this time though !!!

The "Sky Rocket" (Scirocco) is back on the road and so the van will just have to hibernate until a suitable WBX comes along - sad but there we go...

End result = if you have, or know of, a a DG or similar WBX that is worth checking out, within travelling distance of Chester, Please let me know.

Regards to all, John in Chester

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What another WBX?? VW's worst engineering mistake??

Like Mr. T would say...

You must LIKE PAIN!
[img:400:272]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/ ... fd3f17.jpg[/img]

no exactly close but might be worth a look

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/forum ... ?TID=33251

The few complexities of the WBX are clearly too much for some on here. If you dont like the flat four, you dont like VW, simple as that.
I have noted that people have to compare the standard wbx to diesel engines 15 years more advanced, and supported by turbo's and intercoolers to say they have an advantage.
Why spend upto £5000 to go up a hill 5mph faster, the wbx will still come past you faster on the motorway, and wont pollute those following you with disgusting smoke and smell.
Dont forget the fundemental layout of the WBX was made before the war.
A non aspirated diesel to WBX test would be fair in terms of technology.
Very few WBX owners feel the need to modify their engines, very few, where as it would seem that just about all diesel owners feel they have to tinker, must be a disatisfaction thing.

syncrosimon wrote:The few complexities of the WBX are clearly too much for some on here. If you dont like the flat four, you dont like VW, simple as that.
I have noted that people have to compare the standard wbx to diesel engines 15 years more advanced, and supported by turbo's and intercoolers to say they have an advantage.
Why spend upto £5000 to go up a hill 5mph faster, the wbx will still come past you faster on the motorway, and wont pollute those following you with disgusting smoke and smell.
Dont forget the fundemental layout of the WBX was made before the war.
A non aspirated diesel to WBX test would be fair in terms of technology.
Very few WBX owners feel the need to modify their engines, very few, where as it would seem that just about all diesel owners feel they have to tinker, must be a disatisfaction thing.

I love the flat four - in it's Aircooled VW & Porsche forms, along with it's watercooled Subaru form. Sadly, VW made some serious mistakes with the waterboxer. Why else would they ditch it in South Africa and use their Audi inline engines instead? Why else would so many WBX owners dump it for other types than any other car group I can recall? And to correct you, waterboxer technology was developed in the late 70s in VAG, and only used on one platform, then dropped 8 years later. Compare that to the 50+ years Aircooled VWs remained in existence.

Say what you want about the diesels, but they are reliable, modern and cheap to replace and easy to work on. Finally, they make camping and daily driving an affordable reality thanks to their excellent fuel economy and good torque.

The WBX layout is the same as the generic air cooled flat four, it just has a water jacket, which has two areas which need to seal with different materials with very different compresibility, this does cause problems.

If you have a WBX which is in good working order you dont consider changing it for anything else, when it goes bang, as any 28 year old engine is likley to, you swap it for something else, and the diesel is a good option. You are then comparing a new modern engine to an old knackered engine. Yes it will be better.

Many flat fours, wbx or air cooled get past the 100,000 mile mark. I have had three which have got to 130,000 and have been bought at 1 year old ish. I have never had a mechanical break down in a WBX in 400,000 miles of motoring.

The WBX even at 112bhp is underpowered, and the Audi engine is an excellent and probably the best petrol engine for the T3. The south africans were manufacturing the 5 pot engine in SA, and it also made financial sense to use an engine for which parts were much more readily available due to it's use in many different models. The wbx has always suffered from being an exclusive engine to one model, and that is the nail in it's coffin much more than it's design. You just do not get it nowadays, the Mazda and the rotary RX7 ? I dont think used it in any other car.

I am just a fan of being standard, if I have to go slow up a certain hill because it is inbetween gears, then I will, so what.

When you cost in the diesel conversion compared to an LPG conversion it just does not add up. Unless you already have a diesel. If you do have a diesel T3, then obviously sticking a more modern diesel in is going to be better.

People are scared of the WBX because it is outside of there comfort zone, to see VW traders slagging it off is disapointing, and goes against the VW scenes ethos.

I drive modern vehicles, all diesel, all day. I love getting back in my funny old flat 4 WBX, it puts a smile on my face, and how much is that worth.

I bought a £1000 Nissan micra for day to day driving 50 - 60 mpg, much cheaper than a diesel conversion.

windysurfer wrote:no exactly close but might be worth a look

http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/forum ... ?TID=33251

Thanks for the pointer.

I went and had a look but I reckon a 60bhp DF for £450, that is so far down south from Chester, is too much money, to much distance and too much of a gambol

If I buy another used motor, it will have to have been thoroughly tested, compressions, water check, oil check, heard running etc, by ME

Thanks for the thought though and if you hear of any more, do let me know

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