Club 80-90 Forums

Failure of the head gasket (or cylinder sleeve to cylinder head seal) will usually exhibit one of the following symptoms:
Oil in radiator , water in oil, water leaking from under cylinder head and in some cases one or more cylinders not firing but sometimes cutting in late due to wet plugs, loss of compression or small but persistent loss of coolant. It can also cause differences in colour of spark plugs on affected cylinders.
Of course some of these symptoms can be brought about by things not related to the head seal such as coolant leakage - look out for antifreeze stains almost anywhere on the engine or cooling system. A classic on the WBX is water dripping down from the temperature sender in the header tank and finding its way onto the head by a tortuous and obscure route. Also remember that water dripping onto a hot place or component will evaporate in seconds leaving little or no evidence.
I believe that the only real check is to analyse the coolant for the products of combustion which I think is in the form of a gas.
Although I have never used it I believe this test can be undertaken by almost any reasonably equipped garage.
Hope this helps .
CS

A little lesson in WBX

there is NO head gasket, there are 14 seperate seals, 7 on each side.

What a WBX has on each side is a a loose barrel (or wet liner) which is clamped between the crankcase and the head by the head studs. Much like an Aircooled.

There are four metal compression seals that fits between the top of the barrels and the heads.
If the compression seals fail it blows compression gasses into your tank, usually alot and will pressurese your system blowing hoses.

These is an o ring seal that fits in a groove at the bottom of the barrel where it joins the crankcase.
If this fails you will get coolant in your oil and it turns to mayonaise

There is an o ring seal that fits in a groove at the top of the barrel where it jois the head, this is on the side of the barrel.
if this fails you get coolant reaching the compression seal, after a while the compression seal will fail

Around the barrels is a water jacket, a small ennclosed compartment around the barrels which holds coolant, this has a large seal between the head and crankcase.
If this fails you get coolant leaking but the engine will still run.

I had a few go. For me the giveaway was bursting water pipes, I'd repair one then another would blow and water disappearing from header tank. If it is terminal (I hope its not) I'd use it as an opportunity to get the engine you really want.

Not sure if you have an oil cooler but if it goes internally it is possible that the sniff test will indicate combustion gases even if your gasket is not blown.

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Sorry to hear of this Emma

So yours sounds like the fairly common head to case seal failure, rather than a blown head to liner gasket.

You know that I know how you feel, as I have just gone through pretty much the same. I went down the "fit a decent used engine route".
I also went down that same route 10 years ago, and got a good 10 years use, including as my "daily driver" out of that engine, so it can work out.
There are a couple of folk out there who can fix this properly, Andrew at The Campershack being one of them. It seems to be known as a WBX "re-seal" and the job replaces all the seals Itchyfeet refers to, including of course the 4 head to liner "gaskets" - AKA "Compression seals" ("O" rings).

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boatbuilder wrote:Not sure if you have an oil cooler but if it goes internally it is possible that the sniff test will indicate combustion gases even if your gasket is not blown.

You sure about that

Oh, and Citizen Smith, I've never seen a temperature sender on a WBX header tank

Oh, and Citizen Smith, I've never seen a temperature sender on a WBX header tank
- 86 DG (LPG'd) Tin-Top - Accurate LPG Station map here

OK you got me banged to rights!
As she who is never wrong would say: I know I said that but I meant water level sensor.
CS

itchyfeet wrote:A little lesson in WBX

there is NO head gasket, there are 14 seperate seals, 7 on each side.

What a WBX has on each side is a a loose barrel (or wet liner) which is clamped between the crankcase and the head by the head studs. Much like an Aircooled.

There are four metal compression seals that fits between the top of the barrels and the heads.
If the compression seals fail it blows compression gasses into your tank, usually alot and will pressurese your system blowing hoses.

These is an o ring seal that fits in a groove at the bottom of the barrel where it joins the crankcase.
If this fails you will get coolant in your oil and it turns to mayonaise

There is an o ring seal that fits in a groove at the top of the barrel where it jois the head, this is on the side of the barrel.
if this fails you get coolant reaching the compression seal, after a while the compression seal will fail

Around the barrels is a water jacket, a small ennclosed compartment around the barrels which holds coolant, this has a large seal between the head and crankcase.
If this fails you get coolant leaking but the engine will still run.

I can see me posting this on Facebook MANY times, I will credit you though!

itchyfeet wrote:A little lesson in WBX

there is NO head gasket, there are 14 seperate seals, 7 on each side.

What a WBX has on each side is a a loose barrel (or wet liner) which is clamped between the crankcase and the head by the head studs. Much like an Aircooled.

There are four metal compression seals that fits between the top of the barrels and the heads.
If the compression seals fail it blows compression gasses into your tank, usually alot and will pressurese your system blowing hoses.

These is an o ring seal that fits in a groove at the bottom of the barrel where it joins the crankcase.
If this fails you will get coolant in your oil and it turns to mayonaise

There is an o ring seal that fits in a groove at the top of the barrel where it jois the head, this is on the side of the barrel.
if this fails you get coolant reaching the compression seal, after a while the compression seal will fail

Around the barrels is a water jacket, a small ennclosed compartment around the barrels which holds coolant, this has a large seal between the head and crankcase.
If this fails you get coolant leaking but the engine will still run.

Nice writeup, Itchy..!!
It taught me something

Do me a favour, if you share it correct the spelling

Thanks all for sharing the information about this. I'm still fairly confused by it all, but hope to hear back from the garage tomorrow.
Its a bit of a long shot, but would it be fair to ask on this forum how much I might expect to pay a garage to fix something like this, or is that a bit like the length of a bit of string sort of thing?
I'd not know if they are charging slightly on the higher side of things, or not to be honest.

Thanks again for all the great explanations - id be a bit lost without this forum.

I am just doing a WBX reseal, so far.

1 hour to clean it
3 hours to get heads off, they were stuck on and two barrels came off with one head and had to be seperated
2 hours to remove pistons, gudgeons were stuck in tight.
2 hours to clean up pistons and barrels and water jacket.
2 hours to fit new rings and hone barrels becuse rings were shot and barrels a bit marked from the seal failure letting water in.
1 hour to drill out a snapped stud by alternator bracket.

Still got to clean up heads and grind valves.
refit barrels and replace heads,
fit new oil seals as they are leaking and check end float

got to be 20 hours when finished.

If you expect the garage to remove and refit the engine then add some more hours for that, takes me around 10-15 hours to remove and refit an engine.

Gasket set and rings £150

Now a garage should work quicker but if you want low price they will cut corners.

Agree. I have to say, I'm gradually falling out of love with the flat four and its certainly had its day. Its a pain to work on and costly to rebuild. Once this one goes, I'll fit something more sensible. This is also the first year Ive taken it off the road for the Winter. Its just cheaper and more practical to bomb around in the Smart.

Not sure I agree, WBX is a great engine, a gas guzzler yes, most are 30 years old and while they have probably all been rebuilt once before ( look for the * after your engine number) thats still good for any engine.

The trouble is people think they can run a 30 year old engine on a shoestring, you can't and after 30 years the first lot of rebuilds are coming to an end of their life.

Round three ding ding.

Assuming that this is a head leak.
If it's leaking outside the engine then it can't be sealing rings.
It must be the water jacket seal.
If this keeps leaking then two things spring to mind.
The cylinder head faces are very badly pitted, and must be repaired or the head renewed
The head is not being tightened down properly

There is no "head gasket" as said
It's a combination of a rubber water jacket seal., two steel sealing rings and a couple of rubber bands.

E D I T..must read rest of posts before posting
Sorry itchy

Thanks Kev, that makes it clearer for me. I'm gradually starting to understand...