Club 80-90 Forums

81AirCooled wrote: after only a couple of tries the strap at the battery negative terminal is warm to the touch, is that normal?

no. I think your earth strap has high resistance. Bypass it with a jump lead from the battery negative terminal to a good clean earth (the door catch on the b pillar is often good for this).

Had somebody in today who knows something about it engines and we tried to turn it by hand but no go so the poor starter has no chance. He doesn't think it's a valve or even anything internal but rather the connection to the torque converter. That would mean I effed up putting the engine back in but it went pretty well and all three bolts were torqued up correctly. Might have time tomorrow to drop the engine and hopefully get the engine off the tranny.

I've never known backfiring seize an engine. The backfiring says the spark is happening when the inlet valve is open so its not only burning in the cyl but also through the open valve and into the inlet manifold and carb at the same moment. Maybe doing same thing through exh valve also. If you remove dist cap and run a fingernail round rim of dist you will feel a notch, this is where No. 1 lead should be. Turn engine in direction of rotation and see the other leads follow correct firing order though I would imagine you've already done this. This has to be an issue of valve adjustment, valve timing, or ignition timing and I guess we can rule out valve timing As regards engine installation being performed incorrectly I believe you left torque converter in bell housing undisturbed so can't imagine that being prob but why not take plugs out and turn engine by hand and then you'll know, it only takes a minute.

Hi,

So Oops ends here, with a fully running 'turn key' motor in a box:

sarran1955 wrote:
The motor is secured to the base..

Now the pallet may have had a rough ride, but probably no more so than if it were in a syncro doing a bit of off roading, so it seems reasonable to assume that your engine would run fine with suitable 12v and fuel.

Working logically through each symptom:

1) The spitting flames is pretty standard if you start pouring fuel directly into the engine! I wouldn't worry about that at this stage, seems unlikely that the plug leads / timing / valve clearances / crank / cam is off in some way given it is known to run well. I went through a stage of dodgy fuel pumps, and started the van with a spoonful of fuel many times - flames were pretty standard, which isn't a massive surprise as you are bypassing all the metering / atomizing the carb usually does and just dumping some neat fuel in the cylinder. With this much neat fuel knocking around, I've found it tends to light as the inlet opens as well as when it sparks (presumably as the air ratio increases), especially as the fuel starts to run low. The flames I suspect may be a red herring at this stage....

2) Stupid question, but did you fill it up with oil and did the oil light go off when it used to crank / splutter? Sure you did, but it would explain why its stopped going round?!

3) You dropped your torque converter when removing the engine. Are you sure everything is back where it should be now? Something jamming in here would stop you turning the engine over.... any stray nuts / bolts lurking around? Is the the auto box full of fluid, and in neutral (no expert, but is it possible for the box to be put back in such a way that it is effectively in 1st rather than N or P while you try and start it? If you jack the back of the van off the ground it would let you see if you can turn the engine over, and if you can, do the back wheels go round (hand brake off)?!

Good luck with it!!

Cheers,

Alex

Just listened to your post and you say poured 2 cupfulls of petrol in carbs, I would rather have used 2 tablespoons, however the engine sounds as though its trying to fire back through the inlet tract hence the brrr brrr brrr sound. I understood you left transmission in and also torque converter so if thats right you shouldn't have misaligned drive for auto trans pump. If auto box was in anything other than P or N starter inhibitor switch would prevent it starting and you wouldn't even get a click at the starter. If Sarran overhauled this engine he's done enough of them to know what he's at so take plugs out and turn engine by hand to get a feel for any problem re. something trapped in bell housing, though even if there was a prob there it don't explain the throaty Brr Brr noise in manifold. Double check ht leads.

The spitting flames is pretty standard if you start pouring fuel directly into the engine!

If you watch the video on a "big screen" PC you can see a plume of vapour being blown out of the right hand carb the whole time the engine is turning over. If the valves are sealing properly and opening for the right amount of time surely the carb should be sucking not blowing?

Thanks for all the feedback. I was going to drop the engine again yesterday but bottled it I trust John to have got things right so at the moment I'm working on the basis of having made a mistake myself. There's only three short bolts fastening the torque converter to the engine and I torqued them all up so I'd be very shocked if they've worked themselves loose. Oil level is fine, filter filled with maybe 200ml plus 3.5l which is still showing up ok on the dipstick. Filled about 300ml of atf prior to start and level looks ok as far as I can tell with it not running I.e. the same as it's been before when cold.

I'm going to move it to garage in a couple of days and explain the issues and get them to do a basic diagnosis basically can they get the engine off the tranny and will it then turn.

BOXY wrote:

The spitting flames is pretty standard if you start pouring fuel directly into the engine!

If you watch the video on a "big screen" PC you can see a plume of vapour being blown out of the right hand carb the whole time the engine is turning over. If the valves are sealing properly and opening for the right amount of time surely the carb should be sucking not blowing?

Your'e right boxy, and as you said earlier turn engine by hand to discount it being siezed, which I don't believe it is.

81AirCooled wrote:Thanks for all the feedback. I was going to drop the engine again yesterday but bottled it I trust John to have got things right so at the moment I'm working on the basis of having made a mistake myself. There's only three short bolts fastening the torque converter to the engine and I torqued them all up so I'd be very shocked if they've worked themselves loose. Oil level is fine, filter filled with maybe 200ml plus 3.5l which is still showing up ok on the dipstick. Filled about 300ml of atf prior to start and level looks ok as far as I can tell with it not running I.e. the same as it's been before when cold.

I'm going to move it to garage in a couple of days and explain the issues and get them to do a basic diagnosis basically can they get the engine off the tranny and will it then turn.

DON'T take the engine off tranny if you didn't take torque converter out of bell housing. PLEASE spend 5 mins taking plugs out then try turning eng. by hand. If it won't turn THEN separate eng & tranny if you wish.

Ok, I'll do that before anything else.

Pop off the rocker covers as well and get someone to watch the the push rods as the engine turns over. Check for broken springs or AWOL collets. I had a valve stem shear off at the collet but it didn't stop the engine. Sometimes, something just breaks.

BOXY wrote:Pop off the rocker covers as well and get someone to watch the the push rods as the engine turns over. Check for broken springs or AWOL collets. I had a valve stem shear off at the collet but it didn't stop the engine. Sometimes, something just breaks.

Good idea, I once had a customer with a bay ,engine running sick after he got it out of winter storage. Swore blind it ran ok when he parked it up prev year. I found the rocker shaft held loosely by one nut and other laying in rocker cover.

I towed the van to my local garage over the weekend and asked them to check it for me after describing what I'd done. I asked him to check without plug first and was told it will turn very slowly with no plugs i.e. when there is not pressure but as soon as the plugs are back in it's rock solid. There's nothing scrapping or scratching at gearbox/engine so I didn't completely furbar putting it back in.

What I haven't mention so far is that when I went back to it 2 days after filming the backfire video there was a puddle of oil back under the van which was fresh. Is it possible there's a massive build up pressure that is pushing oil out of whatever seal it can get through? Not that it matters too much I'm not taking it apart

Putting this one down to ""pooh" just breaks sometimes"

Have you checked the oil level? If its been over-filled maybe the engine is hydraulically locking?

BOXY wrote:Have you checked the oil level? If its been over-filled maybe the engine is hydraulically locking?

I'll have to check again, it was just over the high line when I filled it but I only put in 3 litres plus the oil filter which was a minimal amount. Haynes says 3.5 Ltd for the cu. Wouldn't I have to drastically overfill?

From when it was running in the workshop after the rebuild to when I fitted it the only thing changed was the flywheel. I don't expect a wrong positive to the coil could do anything could it?