Club 80-90 Forums

Sorry Jed, it was badly worded. What I meant was more like:

" if the syncro is too much bus for the AAZ then the Tdi may well be too much engine for the Syncro box. Be prepared for an Aiden rebuild (and perhaps add taller gearing while you're at it)."

A quick google threw this quote up from http://diamondhell.com/content/view/45/30/

"Be aware that fitting any high powered diesel engine is going to start putting stress on your drivetrain, especially the Syncro gearbox. The key weak point on this 'box is the 3-4th clutch assembly, the synchro rings of which are renowned for dis-integration."

A couple of interesting points made in your post though. (Warning: Unashamed use of cut n paste to slightly skew the context in my favour coming up )

jed the spread wrote:
If you only ever drive a Syncro in this country then an AAZ is a good option

Well said, I agree. But what's different about this country? Mine worked just as well across Europe

jed the spread wrote:but if you go TDI you do not need...a gear box rebuild.

Hopefully, but could be a "ticking time bomb"...

jed the spread wrote:I would have been happy for my old AAZ not to blow up at the time (not the engines fault it failed due to me driving it like a dick)

Hmm, interesting [ref my first post "Any engine will seize without coolant. It will be caused by some other failure first, eg head gasket gone,"]

jed the spread wrote:PS I have 15" wheels with bigger than standard tyres.

Taller gearing then.


Seems to me we can possibly agree that AAZ or Tdi, they're both an improvement on a worn out JX. I suppose it's a case of how much you want to spend, what you're wanting to achieve and what your expectations are.

If a JX goes pop it seems daft not to replace it with a AAZ.
It is not a magic miracle cure, only slightly more power than a JX and it should be driven as such. People seem to think that because they have a AAZ they can cruise at a million miles an hour constantly.
But, if you have the money a TDI is to me the best engine to put in but it isn't without its problems.
Putting a TDI in to me makes an expensive vehicle to own and maintain affordable to run.
I've driven a lot of vans both 2WD and Syncro, the best solution is a longer final drive by far as you dont get the
massive horrible gaps between the gears.
But, as you know you cannot buy a ring and pinion set for the Syncro box and also buy a matching set for the front diff.
So, to get a similar effect you can fit larger diameter tyres, this will give the same result as a ring and pinion set however you will get clearance issues with the tyres touching the body or you put excessive strain on other components such as CV joints as well as having to upgrade the brakes to try and keep the extra rotating mass in check ( the wheels and tyres act as a flywheel and any increase in mass will also take more effort to brake.)
Then, if you have bigger tyres you need to adapt the damping rate so the dampers can keep the tyres where they belong, on the road.
What I'm trying to say is that if you keep the van standard you have no problems so long as you drive it accordingly, as an old van.
If you put a different engine in then you must be aware of the associated problems and be ready for a few trade offs and compromises.

Here here! The main issue is the power delivery is very different with a tdi...and adapting the van to suit is quite a task...the JX will rev away quite happy, the tdi makes max grunt at 2000 rpm and after about 3000 is chucking fuel out its exhaust pipe....

Can't find the like button for Simon's post, so have a

Very well summed up and spot on advice IMHO.

ajsimmo wrote:
A couple of interesting points made in your post though. (Warning: Unashamed use of cut n paste to slightly skew the context in my favour coming up )

jed the spread wrote:
If you only ever drive a Syncro in this country then an AAZ is a good option

Well said, I agree. But what's different about this country? Mine worked just as well across Europe

jed the spread wrote:but if you go TDI you do not need...a gear box rebuild.

Hopefully, but could be a "ticking time bomb"...

jed the spread wrote:I would have been happy for my old AAZ not to blow up at the time (not the engines fault it failed due to me driving it like a dick)

Hmm, interesting [ref my first post "Any engine will seize without coolant. It will be caused by some other failure first, eg head gasket gone,"]

jed the spread wrote:PS I have 15" wheels with bigger than standard tyres.

Taller gearing then.

Just a quick reply to answer your question and quotes,

ajsimmo wrote:

jed the spread wrote:
If you only ever drive a Syncro in this country then an AAZ is a good option

Well said, I agree. But what's different about this country? Mine worked just as well across Europe

This is the road what us TDI owners were talking about its 2,165m (7,103 ft) and you can drive to the top, just to put it into context the highest road in Britain is a tiny 815m (2674 ft). A few of us have driven the road in the picture on our own independent trips some meant to drive it and some like us didn't mean to drive it, we put avoid tolls into the sat nav and it took us that way purely by chance. It isnt the highest road in Europe by any stretch of the imagination that stands at a whopping 3392m I believe.

This is the difference and I am sure I would have damaged my old AAZ driving the whole pass in one hit, one thing is for sure I wouldnt have powered up in third gear with the temperature gauge sat in the middle. Like I said an AAZ is great for the UK and its road conditions.

ajsimmo wrote:

jed the spread wrote:but if you go TDI you do not need...a gear box rebuild.

Hopefully, but could be a "ticking time bomb"...

Maybe Aidan could contribute here but when I went from AAZ to TDI with standard gearing I did not need or require a gear box rebuild. An Aidan rebuild with taller gearing isnt necessary if you go TDI. I believe his warranty on standard gearing gear boxes covers the ones that go into TDI's too so "ticking time bomb" seems a bit unfounded. I dont know where are you getting your information from.

ajsimmo wrote:

jed the spread wrote:I would have been happy for my old AAZ not to blow up at the time (not the engines fault it failed due to me driving it like a dick)

Hmm, interesting [ref my first post "Any engine will seize without coolant. It will be caused by some other failure first, eg head gasket gone,"]

Like I said, my AAZ was OK but it blew up because I was driving like a dick. It wasn't anything to do with loosing coolant and it didnt go due to that time you saw me and my van when my head gasket went. I fixed that and drove across europe to Croatia avoiding motor ways (yes it did struggle on the mountain passes at times staying in 2nd gear revving its breasticles off getting mad hot) plus many other less stressful trips in the UK.
What killed it was the air intake hose collapsing in on itself and sucking water in and compressing in the engine (5.15 onward on this video http://campervanculture.com/2011/10/l-s ... or-review/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

ajsimmo wrote:

jed the spread wrote:PS I have 15" wheels with bigger than standard tyres.

Taller gearing then.

This is Sausage fingers and his van, please note his wheel/tyre size. I edited my post to include 15" wheels because it is relevant to any experience I have actually had and help with his inquiry. I have run the same size wheels when I had the AAZ and on the TDI as he will if he did go TDI. He does not need a gearbox rebuild with longer gears and his gearbox isnt a ticking time bomb.





I hope this helps to answer your questions and if I can help any more please feel free to ask, and remember don't believe everything you read on The Google.

Jed

My van did the same on that pass, 3rd gear all the way. I was more let down by the brakes on the way down, smokin'

My only thing with the AAZ was how hot it ran when you got anywhere near a hill. Now my van is pretty heavy when packed for holiday, but the second stage fan would come on way to often for my liking. I think in a 2WD they fair a bit better

Bugger the price and go Tdi with one of andys looms. It won't be cheap initially but will probably work out cheaper in the long term. Gears need to be suited to weight and use. Super long gears and a fully loaded camper won't work unless your at 140 / 150 hp and that brings plenty of issues in itself.

Just a word of advice to SausageFingers, IMO.......
Talk of a AAZ being fine for 815m but not for 2000m doesn't make much sense. I'm sure you can drive a TDi engined van up a hill much quicker than old rattley oil burner, but there is absolutely no need to rev the breasticles off it in second, perhaps just go abit slower instead & it will be fine!
Also if brakes are smoking from over-use, try a lower gear & perhaps even consider stopping to let them cool down!



If daily commute or getting somewhere as quick as you can is your goal, then TDi sounds nice, but if actually going to use for overlanding, keep it as simple as possible & as God intended!
If I was overlanding in a T3 I'd probably want a 1.6TD.

I found (obviously this is just my experience) that the higher the mountain the steeper the roads and more hairpins. Lots and lots of hairpins that are very steep and the corners very tight. I had to rev the breasticles off the AAZ in second because it would dye immediately in third gear there is absolutely no place to pull in to give the van a rest because there is a mountain wall one side and a shear drop the other side. I had about 50 cars right up my ares for 16km and the van got very very hot, the heaters had to be turned on full, I had to use the manual rad fan over ride switch and it was still very very hot. The air is also thiner and unlike the TDI its not adjusting all the time so it just smokes quite a bit and it feels like it is gasping for breath, you wouldnt have to worry about this to much in the UK though thank god as its stressful as hell

Apart from Jake who did a trip years ago I dont think anyone has ever been overlanding in their syncro on this forum have they? Not that I can think of from the top of my head anyway. I dont know what Sausage fingers plans are though.

Jed

Hi all,
My god what a lot of lovely helpful replies.
In answer to a few of the points I got Helga due to the wonderful friend who helped me buy her. The fact that she is a Syncro is just a bonus. Fiona and I mainly just want to go to a few shows (one or two in europe) and go camping. I did have a fantastic trip to Austria which I would love to do again so I can see the Hairpin Trail argument but mainly I want steady driving on main roads.
I have been offered a TDI from a Golf and am waiting to find out what the engine code is. Thanks again for your help
Neil

This post is really interesting, gearing hasn't been covered in that much detail. I've always wondered why peeps only go for longer 5 th and maybe 4 th as well. Ok a new final drive isn't cheap, but a standard 1st gear is pointless unless you run bigger wheels etc and as Simon has pointed out, big gaps between ratios must be rubbish.
It sounds like, in practice that on big hills, overall gearing changes are the best options, be it bigger wheels Or final drive swap.
With my setup, I'm doing 70 at 3100 approx. my 5th is a .82 and I keep thinking I should swap it out for a .78 or something. Having said all of this, as Jed says, having the extra power in reserve is great.

Longer final drive on a Syncro means Cwp in box and diff and after spending twice you'll find that you're off road gear is too long.

If you're 5.43 or 4.86 you can get away with std gears " just ". Depends on what you want from the van really. I wouldn't hesitate in going Tdi not because of the power but the cost involved in finding a 1/2 decent aaz and getting it in there only for it to show you it's age and perform poorly. You do have a 1/2 decent chance of buying a reliable Tdi for small money.

Did some quick calculations earlier and found out that a 5.43 with a 0.70 (albins)4th gear fitted has the same road speed at 3000 rpm as a 4.86 with a standard .78....this surprised me and changing the cwp s is a much more effective method in my veiw.....if you can find them for sensible money of course..


What cwp are you running Lee? And your on big tyres too....your van didn't seem to be struggling in G when I saw it last!

After my calculating. ( I don't realy do sums ) I have come to the conclusion I'm going to run 4.86s, V second , standard 3rd.( only one option there it seems without spending on albins shiney parts ) and either a .77 or .73 4th..

Any views or opinions at this early stage?

southernsparky wrote:This post is really interesting, gearing hasn't been covered in that much detail. I've always wondered why peeps only go for longer 5 th and maybe 4 th as well. Ok a new final drive isn't cheap, but a standard 1st gear is pointless unless you run bigger wheels etc and as Simon has pointed out, big gaps between ratios must be rubbish.
It sounds like, in practice that on big hills, overall gearing changes are the best options, be it bigger wheels Or final drive swap.
With my setup, I'm doing 70 at 3100 approx. my 5th is a .82 and I keep thinking I should swap it out for a .78 or something. Having said all of this, as Jed says, having the extra power in reserve is great.

What is your setup...I can't seem to get 70 mph at 3100 with .82 without going huge on tyres.

If possible, I would try for 65-70mph @ 3000rpm. 65 would be my choice as that is what the van is designed for. You should be able to get that with a stock gear. Albins are £350 per cog!! I got two!
You've probably seen it, but you can put all your diff sizes tyres sizes ect into this
http://westfield-world.com/gtc.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;