Club 80-90 Forums

Good links to the tow bars and stuff but they are tow bars with weight limits. Dont get me wrong, I am not an expert in this kind of thing and am only a hairy arsed plasterer but a towing weight is pulling that weight along a road. If you have a recovery situation your up to your nutz in mud and a 2500kg (ON A VIN PLATE) will be a tad more stiff to yank it out? If there are two vans doubling up full whammy on one towing point on a stuck vehicle then mmmmm I dont know....

I have been having a poke around the internet and although I would like to say I have researched it, usually by reading lots of other peoples ideas of how things should happen don't really count as research so I got my head down and searched for the experts and studied what they have to say from around the world and looked at what they do. Like Doug says a direct pull is the way to go, kind of like the original towing loop that is fitted to my Westfalia Syncro on the RHS bumper iron (without a tow bar... and I just looked back and noticed Andrew is right on it )



(I have fitted something to the front as a direct pull too (my old one got yanked off)



Although its a direct pull from the chassis its more of a point to double back to when I have a pulley fixed from an anchor point in a slow but steady controlled recovery from my winch.

Hope this helps,

jed

dirty-syncro-lover wrote:think there was the story on here where some one used the tow ball to recover some one towing them from the front, the tow ball snapped on the thin part under the ball went through the wind screen and killed the guy's partner!

im looking to make a 2" receiver system that's not just for towing but for

recovery shackle
spare wheel carrier
rear box holder/ shelf
bike rack
quick release winch
etc

i will mount it to the tow bar set up, and it might even be just for other stuff, and i will keep the tow ball how it is for now, due to time, etc so the 2" receiver hitch would be to one side!

As far as I know this style of towbar - ie with a receiver hitch - is illegal in the EU. I stand to be corrected on this but if they were legal dont you think we'd all have them already?

I think it's true the 2" square tube style hitches are not legal in the UK. We here in the US have some pretty crappy things automotively, but tow equipment is one thing done resoundingly well. Over built. Then overbuilt again to satisfy the lawyers. As a society, we probably tow more with our vehicles than any country on the planet.

From the picture, it looks like that tow setup has two bolts holding the bracket which the ball is mounted to. The two bolts appear to be in the center of a long bar probably anchored at the ends where the Vanagon's longitudinal frames end. Can't really see what the bar is made of, but assuming it is an appropriate bar for towing, then plus 50% stronger (a generous assumption) it is still too weak for recovery use. You'd need the bar mounted/attached stoutly in the center as well for that.

As to what to use, I don't know what's available in the UK. But I would recommend something at either the right or left frame member that is impossibly overbuilt and uses Grade 8 (a term used in the US to denote an automotive bolt that is used to attach something that sees serious stress. They are not hard, but actually slightly soft to absorb some punishment and stretch when approaching failure rather than shatter). I don't know what the EU/UK equivalent is but its worth finding out. If you make your own mount, what Jed did with his front mount is excellent - a long bar of steel secured to the frame at several points and thus spreading the load nicely.

A recovery point should be strong beyond your worst nightmare scenario for getting stuck. Like "I'm stuck in a muddy field to the rockers and a farmer with a tractor and chain is going to pull me out" strong.

A comment worth making is this. Anyone like you guys who'll go out of your way to have good recovery points and is also likely to be the kind of personality who will gladly help yank someone out means you are unfortunately also at risk of getting hurt. Here's why: The odds of the vehicle you are HELPING having proper recovery points is low. So that means if a mounting point fails during a recovery, it will be the other vehicle. So, where's that chunk of metal heading - toward you or away from you? That's right - from the stuck vehicle you're helping directly at you. So, if you are reading this thread and indeed going to be the helpful type then be discriminating and recognize your point won't fail but the other guy's might.

Sadly, I refuse to help a few people every year for exactly that reason. I have points that can handle the full yank of 27,500lbs of my kinetic straps but if I inspect their vehicle and it's just got those tiny loops for tying a new vehicle down to a dealership car carrier, I'll explain the danger and move on. I hate doing it, but at the end of any day of fun my objective is always the same - go home intact.

DougM

Heh..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwcyYN0pcz0

syncroandy wrote:Heh..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwcyYN0pcz0

Nice video, what gave?

jed

so would we say that a good quality tow bar setup bolted to the chassis is man enough for most recovery job's ? and that forgetting the ball hitch you could weld/ bolt some sort of recovery eye to that ? i see that as the same as mounting your own to the chassis rail, you could also have an eye either end of the tow bar and use two shakles with a suitable bridle to spread the load an keep the pull central??

jed the spread wrote:

syncroandy wrote:Heh..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwcyYN0pcz0

Nice video, what gave?

jed

Just as IdahoDoug said - crappy tie-down eye completed unsuitable for recovery ! The driver had spent ages digging out of the mud too. The first thing I asked him was 'have you got jate rings', the response was a bit vague - don't think he knew what one was..

what about the military option on the front?
http://www.sydfynsautocamper.dk/wp-cont ... de-534.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dirty-syncro-lover wrote:so would we say that a good quality tow bar setup bolted to the chassis is man enough for most recovery job's ? and that forgetting the ball hitch you could weld/ bolt some sort of recovery eye to that ? i see that as the same as mounting your own to the chassis rail, you could also have an eye either end of the tow bar and use two shakles with a suitable bridle to spread the load an keep the pull central??

I would say "no" to the first two sentences because the tow bars on Vanagons are NOT mounted in the center where the pulling occurs. The eye at the tow bar ends would be a yes if it were mounted at the frame tip, properly secured with correct grade fasteners or properly welded, etc.

Doug

Can't really tell on that military rig what was done. Sometimes an attachment point like that is made for a vehicle to move supply trailers around just for parking them, or extracting them from tight quarters. So that front center point may be intended only for light use on tarmac. If a close inspection showed it to be a box like structure secured to the vehicle's strong impact bar frame, then much better. Here in the US, that fitting would have a required stamp on it reading something like "2000lb max trailer, 200lb max tongue weight". So you'd have some guidance (that rating would not be good for recovery, btw).

Doug

Your'e correct, that hitch is for nosing only. Ill see if I can dig out my old recovery calculation manual from my days teaching offroading in the forces. Self recovery of a Coles crane using the jib was quite spectacular Jib up fully and hoist in through a pully blok mounted on the chassis rear. Entertaining when your doing it from the top cab

IdahoDoug wrote:Can't really tell on that military rig what was done. Sometimes an attachment point like that is made for a vehicle to move supply trailers around just for parking them, or extracting them from tight quarters. So that front center point may be intended only for light use on tarmac. If a close inspection showed it to be a box like structure secured to the vehicle's strong impact bar frame, then much better. Here in the US, that fitting would have a required stamp on it reading something like "2000lb max trailer, 200lb max tongue weight". So you'd have some guidance (that rating would not be good for recovery, btw).

Doug

like this one receiving the american quality control test before receiving its stamp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXP3cqfkEus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hugomonkey wrote: like this one receiving the american quality control test before receiving its stamp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXP3cqfkEus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh look ..... someone made a pair of brackets that can lift almost 2 tonnes !!

When will those dingbats learn that lifting a T3 up in the air and yanking one out of a mud hole are totally different ....

I'll be looking then for a UK standard 2 bolt tow bar then to solve my accessory mounting issue.
The bigger issue of better extraction attachment points will have to wait for another day as its a spend too far at the mo. Is there an inexpensive way to attach a recovery strop around a chassis member at the rear for safe extraction?

syncropatrick wrote:I'll be looking then for a UK standard 2 bolt tow bar then to solve my accessory mounting issue.
The bigger issue of better extraction attachment points will have to wait for another day as its a spend too far at the mo. Is there an inexpensive way to attach a recovery strop around a chassis member at the rear for safe extraction?

Here you go Patrick, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-HE ... _776wt_907" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I forgot to say this could work on the front maybe?

jed