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Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 02 Feb 2015, 22:45
by CJH
Thank you again - that's good news. You realise of course, if I ever get this built, you'll have the job of setting the 'appropriate timing adjustment'
So far then it looks like I'll be transferring over quite a lot of parts from my 1.9:
distributor,
fuel pump,
carburettor,
alternator,
all of the cooling system (although I'll be treating it to a new water pump and thermostat while I'm at it).
But I'll need quite a few new bits:
camshaft (the one in the 2.1 has had it),
heads (the old ones could probably have been saved, but the GSF 35% discount made them a bit of a bargain),
pushrods,
oil pump,
all new bearings, rings, seals etc.
There are metal shards in the oil pickup mesh, and signs that some of the crank bearings have picked up, so the crank will need a regrind, but the high compression pistons are ok, as are the con rods. Not sure about the hydraulic lifters yet, nor the rocker assemblies. I've bought a second hand flywheel and a new clutch kit, and I may treat myself to a new exhaust, depending how many months I can spread the cost over.
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 02 Feb 2015, 23:01
by ajsimmo
If you are struggling with the camshaft, whether you want new or used I can probably help.
The GSF sale is a cracking deal. I just spent 2/3 of a fortune on bits! Happy days.
If there's metal in there I would clean that case out obsessively! You need full-bore ocd here, flush everything, and replace those hydraulic tappets.
Before grinding that crank, there are NOS standard 2.1s available.
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 02 Feb 2015, 23:30
by CJH
PM sent.
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 04 Feb 2015, 19:47
by CJH
At the beginning of this thread I was keeping a running total, so I thought it was about time to update it. It's starting to mount up! It had better work.
Updated account:
Code: Select all
Engine £200
Fuel to collect it £60
Engine stand £41
Stud removal tool £20
Second hand flywheel £20 (I think - old timers' disease setting in perhaps)
Clutch £78 (Carparts4less £10 off voucher)
Clutch spigot bearing, 2x valve covers,
gasket set, heavy duty oil pump,
2x cylinder heads £517 (GSF 35% discount!)
Main bearings, big end bearings,
thrust washers, small end bearings,
camshaft bearings, 2x head studs £133
Total so far £1069
Still to come - a camshaft of some variety, new tappets, new pushrods, new pushrod tubes, the bill for the machine shop's services including 2x stud removal, crankshaft polishing (it didn't need a regrind after all), steam cleaning, piston rings............
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 04 Feb 2015, 20:03
by CJH
I forgot some bits:
Updated account:
Code: Select all
Engine £200
Fuel to collect it £60
Engine stand £41
Stud removal tool £20
Second hand flywheel £20 (I think - old timers' disease setting in perhaps)
Clutch £78 (Carparts4less £10 off voucher)
Clutch spigot bearing, 2x valve covers,
gasket set, heavy duty oil pump,
2x cylinder heads £517 (GSF 35% discount!)
Main bearings, big end bearings,
thrust washers, small end bearings,
camshaft bearings, 2x head studs £133
Second hand Setrab oil cooler plus brackets
and new Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate £113 (hydraulic pipes still to come)
Total so far £1182
...and one replacement piston liner still to come too.
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 08 Feb 2015, 14:31
by CJH
More credit card action:
Updated account:
Code: Select all
Engine £200
Fuel to collect it £60
Engine stand £41
Stud removal tool £20
Second hand flywheel £20 (I think - old timers' disease setting in perhaps)
Clutch £78 (Carparts4less £10 off voucher)
Clutch spigot bearing, 2x valve covers,
gasket set, heavy duty oil pump,
2x cylinder heads £517 (GSF 35% discount!)
Main bearings, big end bearings,
thrust washers, small end bearings,
camshaft bearings, 2x head studs £133
Second hand Setrab oil cooler plus brackets
and new Mocal thermostatic sandwich plate £113 (hydraulic pipes still to come)
Tools: Oil can, DTI gauge £25
Pushrod tubes, valve nuts and screws £120
Exhaust studs, nuts, washers, oil pump cover+nuts £26
Total so far: £1353
(Total minus tools: £1207)
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 08 Feb 2015, 14:46
by CJH
I'm going to need some flywheel bolts. Brickwerks are out of stock and VW Heritage want £5.15 each. Since there are plenty of places on ebay that sell high tensile cap head bolts, can someone tell me the length and thread spec that I need?
And what about conrod bolts. Since they're stretch bolts I assume I'm not supposed to reuse them? VWHeritage want £9.48 each (so £76 for the set), which seems crazy given that they also sell new con rods complete with new stretch bolts and reamed small end bushes for just over twice that. Is there a better way to buy new stretch bolts? Can I reuse the old ones?
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 08 Feb 2015, 15:20
by CJH
CJH wrote:I'm going to need some flywheel bolts. Brickwerks are out of stock and VW Heritage want £5.15 each. Since there are plenty of places on ebay that sell high tensile cap head bolts, can someone tell me the length and thread spec that I need?
Hmm - part number N90226801 is M12 x 1.5 x 20. That 1.5 means they're fine pitch (the standard for M12 is 1.75 I think), so that makes them a lot more expensive according to my ebay searches. Best price so far is 3.50 Euro (£2.60) each from VWBusshop.de. Brickwerks look good value at £7.80 the set, when they come back in stock.
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 08 Feb 2015, 23:04
by ajsimmo
CJH wrote:
And what about conrod bolts. Since they're stretch bolts I assume I'm not supposed to reuse them? VWHeritage want £9.48 each (so £76 for the set), which seems crazy given that they also sell new con rods complete with new stretch bolts and reamed small end bushes for just over twice that. Is there a better way to buy new stretch bolts? Can I reuse the old ones?
No, Chris. Never reuse stretch bolts. They will probably break and desroy your engine.
The stretch bolt is the weakness of the dj conrod, and arguably one of VWs less smart "upgrades". So why use them?
The early non-stretch bolts seem far more reliable (anecdotally), and are a fraction of the price. VWH do em here:
https://vwheritage.mobi/productDetails. ... mID=124604
I fitted them in my most recent dj rebuild. Early days yet but it's running great & I'm not at all worried.
Having said that, my current build is getting the genuine set of NOS conrods.
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 08 Feb 2015, 23:15
by CJH
Ooh, that's better, thanks Andy. At that price I might as well replace them then, but since they're not stretch bolts does that mean I could reuse them if that's what's already in my con rods (I can't check - they're still at the machine shop with the crank case)?
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 08 Feb 2015, 23:29
by ajsimmo
If they're out of the 2.1 they're stretch. If they're your early 1.9 rods, they should be nons (but may have been changed before). At that price I'd fit new.
Ps like you I thought the conrods were a steal compared to the price of the stretchers alone!
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 09 Feb 2015, 07:13
by CJH
ajsimmo wrote:If they're out of the 2.1 they're stretch.
...unless it's been rebuilt before - that's all I was thinking. The 1.9 is staying together as much as possible. Once it's out I plan to attend to the weeping water jacket seal then sell it on as a good runner.
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 09 Feb 2015, 12:20
by kevtherev
Flywheel bolts are reusable
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 09 Feb 2015, 17:57
by CJH
kevtherev wrote:Flywheel bolts are reusable
Good to know for the future, thanks Kev. My DJ didn't come with a flywheel or the bolts, and since I managed to get a second hand flywheel quite cheaply I thought I'd leave the one on my DG - one less thing for the next owner to worry about.
Re: Early 1.9 to 2.1 conversion - stop me if I'm being stupid!
Posted: 09 Feb 2015, 19:07
by itchyfeet
CJH wrote:Looking at the later type thermostat housing and pump that were on my MV when I bought it, it looks like the oil cooler only gets water when the thermostat opens (makes sense), and therefore the water it's getting is from the cooled return from the radiator. The water that leaves the oil cooler rejoins the circuit at the pump, as pointed out by Kev.
.
CJH
I know you have ditched this idea but despite it's rumoured poor performance, as you know I wan't to fit a standard oil cooler to my DG but I doubt what is written here about plumbing.
I too have looked at the pump and the 2.1 thermostat housing and concluded the pipe on the pump is the other side of the impellar to the return so is pressurised (pump does not suck but blow to oil cooler), the return from oil cooler is below the thermostat so will circulate when the thermostat is closed on a late system and also when thermostat open via the radiator.
This diagram confirms the flow direction
https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Pe ... em_diagram" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On an early system I agree it's much harder to get a pressure feed.