All engine faults/repairs/maintenance reluctant starting - Revision history

Hacksawbob at 11:13, 25 September 2007

2007-09-25T11:13:52Z

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 Poor starting. (Not diesels) Engine turns over slowly, if you don't catch it first time you've got no chance of starting it today. Battery, alternator and wiring all checks out good. Worn started bush. For some reason VW decided to have the starter motors with only one end of the armature located in a bearing, the other end is located in a bush in the bell housing.
 The bushes wear and disintegrate, this lets the armature of the motor cock over, stator now touches armature, excess friction hey presto one slow turning engine. Remedy is to fit new starter bush, trouble is they are a bit of a pain to do. On the good side they cost about £1 2004! Remove starter, pick out old bush with a screw driver, if its stuck fast use an expanding masonry bolt to grab it and pull it out (internal diameter of new bush is 12mm). Press new bush into place. Note that these bushes are not phosphor bronze but Oilite! They need to be left to soak in engine oil for 24 hours prior to fitment to prime them (can just squeeze oil into them forefinger and thumb a few times! - Ed).
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HarryMann at 11:40, 10 February 2007

2007-02-10T11:40:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:40, 10 February 2007
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	There is either an electrical reason or a physical reason why the starter isn't turning over, or possibly both. If it won't start and you hit the starter with a hammer a few times, suspect a worn starter motor bush. But it may be as well to do the electrical checks anyway. Or its the starter's own clucth or pinion bearing, see above.		There is either an electrical reason or a physical reason why the starter isn't turning over, or possibly both. If it won't start and you hit the starter with a hammer a few times, suspect a worn starter motor bush. But it may be as well to do the electrical checks anyway. Or its the starter's own clucth or pinion bearing, see above.

	Check your voltage accross battery should be 12V+ if not recharge, let it stand for 24hours and check for voltage loss ~~if its~~ not holding a charge supect battery.		Check your voltage accross battery should be 12V+ if not recharge, let it stand for 24hours and check for voltage loss. If it's not holding a charge then supect the battery.

	Check the battery posts and terminals are clean if not get some emery paper on them and make them shine, there is a tool for doing this which makes life a touch easier. Then use Vaseline or NoCrode on the terminals to prevent corrosion.		Check the battery posts and terminals are clean if not get some emery paper on them and make them shine, there is a tool for doing this which makes life a touch easier. Then use Vaseline or NoCrode on the terminals to prevent corrosion.

	Once you have eliminated your battery, hook it all back up and test between the positive post on the terminal and the body of the starter motor for voltage drop. I never established what a bad voltage drop would be, but would think anything over -0.5V wouldn't be good.		Once you have eliminated your battery as a suspect problem, hook it all back up and test between the positive post on the terminal and the body of the starter motor for voltage drop. I never established what a bad voltage drop would be, but would think anything over -0.5V wouldn't be good.

	Visually inspect the wires going to the starter motor. There are three wires one really thick one (about 1/2" thick!) that comes from the front of the van which is the positive wire from the battery. This attatches to a horizontal threaded bar on the starter. Also connected here is the wire that goes rearwards to the engine bay and to the alternator. There is also a push on connector on a thinner wire that attatches to the solenoid the smaller cylinder on the starter motor. Ensure this is pushed on correctly.		Visually inspect the wires going to the starter motor. There are three wires one really thick one (about 1/2" thick!) that comes from the front of the van which is the positive wire from the battery. This attatches to a horizontal threaded bar on the starter. Also connected here is the wire that goes rearwards to the engine bay and to the alternator. There is also a push on connector on a thinner wire that attatches to the solenoid the smaller cylinder on the starter motor. Ensure this is pushed on correctly.

HarryMann at 11:39, 10 February 2007

2007-02-10T11:39:05Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:39, 10 February 2007
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	Disconect the live and neutral from the battery and remove the starter motor, on a syncro you will need to remove the drive shaft and diff lock actuator to do this. There are two bolts holding it on to the engine. One is a straight bolt and nut that is easy to get to (lower) the upper one requires an allen key on one side and a spanner on the other. Work from within the engine bay.		Disconect the live and neutral from the battery and remove the starter motor, on a syncro you will need to remove the drive shaft and diff lock actuator to do this. There are two bolts holding it on to the engine. One is a straight bolt and nut that is easy to get to (lower) the upper one requires an allen key on one side and a spanner on the other. Work from within the engine bay.

	~~Here is some more on removing the bush~~:		Other Wiki links:

	[[petrol engines starter bush removal\|Starter motor bush removal]]		[[petrol engines starter bush removal\|Starter motor support bush removal]]

			[[All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|Replacing starter motor]]
	[[All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|~~Maintenance Replace~~ starter]]

HarryMann at 11:37, 10 February 2007

2007-02-10T11:37:53Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:37, 10 February 2007
Line 57:		Line 57:
	Here is some more on removing the bush:		Here is some more on removing the bush:

	[[~~Petrol_engines_starter_bush_removal~~ Starter motor ~~support~~ bush removal]]		[[petrol engines starter bush removal\|Starter motor bush removal]]

	~~http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/Petrol_engines_starter_bush_removal~~

	[[All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|Maintenance Replace starter]]		[[All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|Maintenance Replace starter]]

	~~http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/All_engine_faults/repairs/maintenance_Replace_starter_motor~~

HarryMann at 10:49, 10 February 2007

2007-02-10T10:49:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:49, 10 February 2007
Line 47:		Line 47:
	Check your voltage accross battery should be 12V+ if not recharge, let it stand for 24hours and check for voltage loss if its not holding a charge supect battery.		Check your voltage accross battery should be 12V+ if not recharge, let it stand for 24hours and check for voltage loss if its not holding a charge supect battery.

	Check the battery posts and terminals are clean if not get some emery paper on them and make them shine, there is a tool for doing this which makes life a touch easier. ~~The vaseline~~ or NoCrode on terminals to prevent corrosion.		Check the battery posts and terminals are clean if not get some emery paper on them and make them shine, there is a tool for doing this which makes life a touch easier. Then use Vaseline or NoCrode on the terminals to prevent corrosion.

	Once you have eliminated your battery, hook it all back up and test between the positive post on the terminal and the body of the starter motor for voltage drop. I never established what a bad voltage drop would be, but would think anything over -0.5V wouldn't be good.		Once you have eliminated your battery, hook it all back up and test between the positive post on the terminal and the body of the starter motor for voltage drop. I never established what a bad voltage drop would be, but would think anything over -0.5V wouldn't be good.

HarryMann at 10:49, 10 February 2007

2007-02-10T10:49:10Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:49, 10 February 2007
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	If connections are secure and not corroded give starter motor a couple of hits with hammer or similar to "unstick" it. Suspect worn starter motor bush.		If connections are secure and not corroded give starter motor a couple of hits with hammer or similar to "unstick" it. Suspect worn starter motor bush.

	'''Vanjam:''' There is an assumption that starters failing to engage is inevitably a consequence of the bearing in the bellhousing being worn, please note symptoms of starter turning and not engaging can also result from the following:		'''Vanjam:''' There is an assumption that starters failing to engage is inevitably a consequence of the bearing in the bellhousing
			being worn, please note symptoms of starter turning and not engaging can also result from the following:

	a) The clutch drive on the starter can be worn beyond repair and needs replacing;		a) The clutch drive on the starter can be worn beyond repair and needs replacing;

HarryMann at 10:48, 10 February 2007

2007-02-10T10:48:33Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:48, 10 February 2007
Line 15:		Line 15:
	b) There is a liner or "bearing" on the inner circumferenece of the starter pinion. If this is worn out the pinion can flay about sufficiently to prevent engagement with flywheel		b) There is a liner or "bearing" on the inner circumferenece of the starter pinion. If this is worn out the pinion can flay about sufficiently to prevent engagement with flywheel

	General Note:		General Note: You can purchase the drive section of a starter motor for about £20
	You can purchase the drive section of a starter motor for about £20

	~~[[All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|Maintenance Replace starter]]~~

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	Not enough volts at starter - check cables and connectors at batttery and motor.		Not enough volts at starter - check cables and connectors at batttery and motor.

	''~~'check~~ signal from ignition key''' - Check for 12 volts (12.6~13 ideally) from the plug that pulls off the back of the solenoid when the key is in first position, otherwise dodgy ignition witch, broken wire etc...		''Check signal from ignition key'' - Check for 12 volts (12.6~13 ideally) from the plug that pulls off the back of the solenoid when the key is in first position, otherwise dodgy ignition witch, broken wire etc...

	''~~'motor~~ worn-check''~~' by~~ jumping from the fat battery cable on the solenoid to the push on connector (see picture below). Starter should whirr into life otherwise suspect motor. '''Make sure van is out of gear!'''		''Motor worn-check'' - By jumping from the fat battery cable on the solenoid to the push on connector (see picture below). Starter should whirr into life otherwise suspect motor. '''Make sure van is out of gear!'''

	If motor whirrs under above test, suspect worn bellhousing bush or see above... Vanjam - false assumption		If motor whirrs under above test, suspect worn bellhousing bush or see above... Vanjam - warning of false assumption!
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	Give it a thump with a club hammer while someone is turning the key '''(Make sure the can isn't in reverse though!)''' If it turns over then, but sticks again later, scrap it (or follow Vanjam's advice above!). Often someone will have one in "classifieds" or GSF supply exchange ones (GSF price £68.50 exchange, 2006)		Give it a thump with a club hammer while someone is turning the key '''(Make sure the can isn't in reverse though!)''' If it turns over then, but sticks again later, scrap it (or follow Vanjam's advice above!). Often someone will have one in "classifieds" or GSF supply exchange ones (GSF price £68.50 exchange, 2006)
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	http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/Petrol_engines_starter_bush_removal		http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/Petrol_engines_starter_bush_removal

	[[~~All_engine_faults~~/repairs/~~maintenance_Replace_starter_motor Replacing~~ starter motor]]		[[All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|Maintenance Replace starter]]

	http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/All_engine_faults/repairs/maintenance_Replace_starter_motor		http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/All_engine_faults/repairs/maintenance_Replace_starter_motor

HarryMann at 10:45, 10 February 2007

2007-02-10T10:45:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:45, 10 February 2007
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	You can purchase the drive section of a starter motor for about £20		You can purchase the drive section of a starter motor for about £20

	[[All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|Maintenance Replace starter]]		[[All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|Maintenance Replace starter]]

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	'''check signal from ignition key''' - Check for 12 volts (12.6~13 ideally) from the plug that pulls off the back of the solenoid when the key is in first position, otherwise dodgy ignition witch, broken wire etc...		'''check signal from ignition key''' - Check for 12 volts (12.6~13 ideally) from the plug that pulls off the back of the solenoid when the key is in first position, otherwise dodgy ignition witch, broken wire etc...

	'''motor worn-check''' by jumping from the fat battery cable on the solenoid to the push on connector (see picture below). Starter should whirr into life otherwise suspect motor. ~~MAKE SURE VAN IS OUT OF GEAR~~!		'''motor worn-check''' by jumping from the fat battery cable on the solenoid to the push on connector (see picture below). Starter should whirr into life otherwise suspect motor. '''Make sure van is out of gear!'''

	If motor whirrs under above test, suspect worn bellhousing bush or see above... Vanjam - false assumption		If motor whirrs under above test, suspect worn bellhousing bush or see above... Vanjam - false assumption
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	Give it a thump with a club hammer while someone is turning the key '''(Make sure the can isn't in reverse though!)''' If it turns over then, but sticks again later, scrap it (or follow Vanjam's advice above) Often someone will have one in "classifieds" or GSF supply exchange ones (GSF price £68.50 exchange, 2006)		Give it a thump with a club hammer while someone is turning the key '''(Make sure the can isn't in reverse though!)''' If it turns over then, but sticks again later, scrap it (or follow Vanjam's advice above!). Often someone will have one in "classifieds" or GSF supply exchange ones (GSF price £68.50 exchange, 2006)
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HarryMann at 10:42, 10 February 2007

2007-02-10T10:42:00Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:42, 10 February 2007
Line 1:		Line 1:
	When starting my van the lights come on but nothing happens, it is totally dead~~...~~...battery is ok ..~~...~~		'''Qu:''' When starting my van the lights come on but nothing happens, it is totally dead... battery is ok ...
	~~pop under the driverside rear wheelarch and check the signal wire to the startermotor is connected to the spade connector on the solenoid~~.

	~~1. Turn key~~ to ~~first position- red dash lights not coming~~ on. ~~Battery flat or electrical connection fuulty, i.e. battery leads loose or fuse loose/blown~~		Pop under the driverside rear wheel arch and check the signal wire to the starter motor is connected to the spade connector on the solenoid.

	2. Turn key to second position (start)- no "click" and starter not turning over, ~~see~~ 1, ~~and~~ starter motor seized or electrical connection to starter motor loose. If connections are secure and not to corroded give starter motor a couple of hits with hammer or similar to "unstick" it. ~~suspect~~ worn starter motor bush. [[All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|~~maintenance~~ Replace starter]]		1. Turn key to first position- red dash lights not coming on. Battery flat or electrical connection faulty, i.e. battery leads loose or fuse loose/blown

			2. Turn key to second position (start)- no "click" and starter not turning over, See 1, starter motor seized or electrical connection to starter motor loose.

			If connections are secure and not corroded give starter motor a couple of hits with hammer or similar to "unstick" it. Suspect worn starter motor bush.

			'''Vanjam:''' There is an assumption that starters failing to engage is inevitably a consequence of the bearing in the bellhousing being worn, please note symptoms of starter turning and not engaging can also result from the following:

			a) The clutch drive on the starter can be worn beyond repair and needs replacing;

			b) There is a liner or "bearing" on the inner circumferenece of the starter pinion. If this is worn out the pinion can flay about sufficiently to prevent engagement with flywheel

			General Note:
			You can purchase the drive section of a starter motor for about £20

			[[All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|Maintenance Replace starter]]

	----		----
	Check the battery connections. They need to be clean and tight otherwise the voltage drop will be so high that the starter motor won't have enogh current to turn.		Check the battery connections. They need to be clean and tight otherwise the voltage drop will be so high that the starter motor won't have enogh current to turn.

	~~not~~ enough volts at starter- check cables and connectors at batttery and motor.		Not enough volts at starter - check cables and connectors at batttery and motor.

	'''check signal from ignition key''' -~~check~~ for 12 volts from the plug that pulls off the back of the solenoid when the key is in first position, otherwise dodgy ignition broken wire etc...		'''check signal from ignition key''' - Check for 12 volts (12.6~13 ideally) from the plug that pulls off the back of the solenoid when the key is in first position, otherwise dodgy ignition witch, broken wire etc...

	'''motor worn-check''' by jumping from the fat battery cable on the solenoid to the push on connector (see picture below). Starter should ~~whir~~ into life otherwise suspect motor. MAKE SURE VAN IS OUT OF GEAR!		'''motor worn-check''' by jumping from the fat battery cable on the solenoid to the push on connector (see picture below). Starter should whirr into life otherwise suspect motor. MAKE SURE VAN IS OUT OF GEAR!

	If motor ~~whirs~~ under above test, suspect ~~dodgy~~ bush.		If motor whirrs under above test, suspect worn bellhousing bush or see above... Vanjam - false assumption
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	~~yeah, give~~ it a ~~whack~~ with a hammer while someone is turning the key (~~MAKE SURE THE VAN ISNT IN REVERSE THOUGH~~) ~~!!!! if~~ it turns over then, scrap it, someone will have one in "classifieds" or GSF		Give it a thump with a club hammer while someone is turning the key '''(Make sure the can isn't in reverse though!)''' If it turns over then, but sticks again later, scrap it (or follow Vanjam's advice above) Often someone will have one in "classifieds" or GSF supply exchange ones (GSF price £68.50 exchange, 2006)
	(GSF ~~PRICE~~ £68.50 exchange)
	-----		-----

	From [http://194.242.159.246/brickyard/info/cmmnprblms.htm \|The Brickyard ]		From [http://194.242.159.246/brickyard/info/cmmnprblms.htm The Brickyard discussion]

	All petrol models.		All petrol models.
	Poor starting. (Not diesels) Engine turns over slowly, if you don't catch it first time you've got no chance of starting it today. Battery, alternator and wiring all checks out good. Worn started bush. For some reason VW decided to have the starter motors with only one end of the armature located in a bearing, the other end is located in a bush in the bell housing.		Poor starting. (Not diesels) Engine turns over slowly, if you don't catch it first time you've got no chance of starting it today. Battery, alternator and wiring all checks out good. Worn started bush. For some reason VW decided to have the starter motors with only one end of the armature located in a bearing, the other end is located in a bush in the bell housing.
	The bushes wear and disintegrate, this lets the armature of the motor cock over, stator now touches armature, excess friction hey presto one slow turning engine. Remedy is to fit new starter bush, trouble is they are a bit of a pain to do. On the good side they cost about ~~1GBP2004~~! Remove starter, pick out old bush with a screw driver, if its stuck fast use an expanding masonry bolt to grab it and pull it out (internal diameter of new bush is 12mm). Press new bush into place. Note that these bushes are not phosphor bronze but ~~something with a posh name~~! ~~they~~ need to be left to soak in engine oil for 24 hours prior to fitment to prime them.		The bushes wear and disintegrate, this lets the armature of the motor cock over, stator now touches armature, excess friction hey presto one slow turning engine. Remedy is to fit new starter bush, trouble is they are a bit of a pain to do. On the good side they cost about £1 2004! Remove starter, pick out old bush with a screw driver, if its stuck fast use an expanding masonry bolt to grab it and pull it out (internal diameter of new bush is 12mm). Press new bush into place. Note that these bushes are not phosphor bronze but Oilite! They need to be left to soak in engine oil for 24 hours prior to fitment to prime them (can just squeeze oil into them forefinger and thumb a few times! - Ed).

	----		----

	'''Petrol'''		'''Petrol'''
	There is either an electrical reason or a physical reason why the starter isn't turning over, or possibly both. If it ~~wont~~ start and you hit the starter with a hammer a few times, suspect a worn starter motor bush. But it may be as well to do the electrical checks anyway.		There is either an electrical reason or a physical reason why the starter isn't turning over, or possibly both. If it won't start and you hit the starter with a hammer a few times, suspect a worn starter motor bush. But it may be as well to do the electrical checks anyway. Or its the starter's own clucth or pinion bearing, see above.

	Check your voltage accross battery should be 12V+ if not recharge, let it stand for 24hours and check for voltage loss if its not holding a charge supect battery.		Check your voltage accross battery should be 12V+ if not recharge, let it stand for 24hours and check for voltage loss if its not holding a charge supect battery.

	Check the battery posts and terminals are clean if not get some emery paper on them and make them shine, there is a tool for doing this which makes life a touch ~~easieer get em~~ on ~~Ebay~~ for a ~~couple of quid~~.		Check the battery posts and terminals are clean if not get some emery paper on them and make them shine, there is a tool for doing this which makes life a touch easier. The vaseline or NoCrode on terminals to prevent corrosion.

			Once you have eliminated your battery, hook it all back up and test between the positive post on the terminal and the body of the starter motor for voltage drop. I never established what a bad voltage drop would be, but would think anything over -0.5V wouldn't be good.

	~~Once you have eliminated your~~ battery ~~hook it all back up~~ and ~~test between~~ the ~~positive post~~ on the ~~terminal and~~ the ~~body of~~ the starter motor ~~for voltage drop~~. ~~I never established what a bad voltage drop would be, but would think anything over -0.5V wouldn't be good~~.		Visually inspect the wires going to the starter motor. There are three wires one really thick one (about 1/2" thick!) that comes from the front of the van which is the positive wire from the battery. This attatches to a horizontal threaded bar on the starter. Also connected here is the wire that goes rearwards to the engine bay and to the alternator. There is also a push on connector on a thinner wire that attatches to the solenoid the smaller cylinder on the starter motor. Ensure this is pushed on correctly.

	~~Visually inspect~~ the ~~wires going to the starter motor there are three wires one really thick one (like an inch thick!) that comes from the front of the van which is the positive wire~~ from the battery~~. This attatches to a horizontal threaded bar on~~ the starter, ~~Also conected here is the wire that goes rearwards~~ to the ~~engine bay~~ and to the ~~alternator~~. ~~There~~ is ~~also~~ a ~~push on conector on a thinner wire~~ that ~~attatches~~ to the ~~solenoid the smaller cylinder~~ on the ~~starter motor~~. ~~ensure this is pushed on correctly~~.		Disconect the live and neutral from the battery and remove the starter motor, on a syncro you will need to remove the drive shaft and diff lock actuator to do this. There are two bolts holding it on to the engine. One is a straight bolt and nut that is easy to get to (lower) the upper one requires an allen key on one side and a spanner on the other. Work from within the engine bay.

	Disconect the live and neutral from the battery and remove the starter motor, on a syncro you will need to remove the drive shaft and diff lock actuator to do this. There are two bolt holding it on to the engine. One is ~~a straight bolt and nut that is easy to get to (lower) the upper one requires a allen key~~ on ~~one side and a spanner on the other. do it from within~~ the ~~engine bay.~~		Here is some more on removing the bush:

	~~here is some more on removing the~~ bush		[[Petrol_engines_starter_bush_removal Starter motor support bush removal]]

	http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/Petrol_engines_starter_bush_removal		http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/Petrol_engines_starter_bush_removal

			[[All_engine_faults/repairs/maintenance_Replace_starter_motor Replacing starter motor]]

	http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/All_engine_faults/repairs/maintenance_Replace_starter_motor		http://wiki.80-90.co.uk/index.php/All_engine_faults/repairs/maintenance_Replace_starter_motor

HarryMann at 15:48, 8 February 2007

2007-02-08T15:48:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:48, 8 February 2007
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	1. Turn key to first position- red dash lights not coming on. Battery flat or electrical connection fuulty, i.e. battery leads loose or fuse loose/blown		1. Turn key to first position- red dash lights not coming on. Battery flat or electrical connection fuulty, i.e. battery leads loose or fuse loose/blown

	2. Turn key to second position (start)- no "click" and starter not turning over, see 1, and starter motor seized or electrical connection to starter motor loose. If connections are secure and not to corroded give starter motor a couple of hits with hammer or similar to "unstick" it. suspect worn starter motor bush. [All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|maintenance Replace starter]		2. Turn key to second position (start)- no "click" and starter not turning over, see 1, and starter motor seized or electrical connection to starter motor loose. If connections are secure and not to corroded give starter motor a couple of hits with hammer or similar to "unstick" it. suspect worn starter motor bush. [[All engine faults/repairs/maintenance Replace starter motor\|maintenance Replace starter]]

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