==Gas bottle tare weight - Calor Gas==

'''campervankatie:''' Hi Im trying to work out how much gas I have left in my gas bottle.

From memory I think it was 24llbs full. Does anyone know the weight of an empty calor gas 4.5 kg Butane bottle (blue)so i can work out how much I have left. I have one of those regulators that change colour according to amount of gas, but it doesn't seem that good.

According to the Calor website the empy weight of the bottle is printed on the aluminium collar on the gas bottle in pounds and ounces. I have 3 bottles and each shows a different weight on the collar which confuses me a little.

'''Lloyd:''' 12 10 stamping is empty bottle weight (in lbs and ozs)

12 lb 10 oz is 5.7386 kilo. Your bottle weight of 6 kilo bottle is 13.2 lb.. 13 lb 2 oz - 12 lb 10 oz bottle weight on tag means bottle = 9.2 oz, so should have that much gas left in bottle... 5 kilo of gas plus 5.7386 kilo bottle = 10.7386 kilo which is what a full bottle should weight or 23 lb 10 oz.

When you are using gas and pressure / flame drops at near empty tank, there is still a little gas left in the tank. That's why it weights a little more then tag says.

Use propane bottles in ours and have found this kind of calculation to be accurate.

'''Bowton Lad:''' I have one of those Gaslow (green/amber/red) gauges & it isn't really much good. My gauge was reading green & within 5 minutes the grill in my camper was struggling & the gas ran out. It didn't give any warning that the gas was about to run out.

The bottle I swapped was a 5kg one with 12.10 on the collar. The replacement is the standard 4.5kg bottle & it has 14.10 on the collar. (6.6338 Kg)

==Gas bottle tare weight - Camping Gaz==

Camping Gaz is normally Butane, though Propane-fill info is often on the bottom of the bottles' support ring, as should be tare weight

Typical sizes are 901 (0.4 Kg), 904 (1.8 Kg) and 907 (2.72 Kg) (Nett gas weight, not total cylinder weight)

'''907'''

Tare weight of the 907 bottle is varying between 3.6 and 3.7 kg, I've seen them stamped at 3.62 and 3.65 Kg

They are supposed to hold about 2.72~2.75 Kg when filled at 80% for N. European climate, but ''could'' have only 70% if filled for a more Southern Climate (I think a bottle we bought in Andorra, Spanish writing on it) is below the 6.4Kg one might expect, seems to weigh 6.0 Kg, so has 2.35 Kg of gas, but it was cheap (Euros 24, no exchange)

'''904'''

Tare weight ?

'''901'''

Tare weight ?

N.B. Coleman (US) now own Camping Gaz

==Types of gas==

Butane and Propane are saturated hydrocarbons of the Alkanes (paraffin) family
Commercial gases contain traces of other LPG type gases
They are characterised by being more easily liquified at lower pressures than Natural Gas,
and are derived directly from oil field gases or from the distillation process of oil products

'''H&S''' They are both heavier than air so should not be used nor stored underground, nor stored near drains and cellars

{| border="1" cellpadding="2"
|+'''Butane and Propane properties'''

| '''Property''' || '''Propane''' || '''Butane'''
|-
|Volume expansion ratio ||274||233||
|-
|Calorific Value/cu.m||95.8||126||
|-
|Relative Cal Val by weight||1.0||1.12||
|-
|Boiling Point (C)||-42||-0.5||
|-
|Vapour Pressure (bar)||7||2||
|-
|Regulator Press. (mb)||37||28||
|}

Thus a given mass of Butane will contain 12% more energy than that of Propane.

Thus Butane is not suitable for use in English winters, as it won't vaporise well (or at all) much below freezing.

'''H&S''' They are both heavier than air so should not be used nor stored underground, nor stored ''near'' drains and cellars
--

==Where to buy gas==

'''Harrymann:''' You might be told that Camping Gaz (small blue bottles) are readily sold in almost very French High Street...

Well they might have been '''but they're not now'''... and if they are the price will vray incredibly! From Euro 19.54 for a refill exchange 2.5 kg in French provincial towm to Euro 24 for a complete new 4.5 kg tall bottle in Andorran campsite

'''campervankatie:''' I found the cheapest place to get refil 4.5kg calor gas Butane was Go Outdoors at £11.70. The larger 7kg are £15.30. This was August 2008.

Does anyone use 7kg calor gas bottles - I saw these and wondered about the pros and cons of them versus 4.5kg bottles?

CampingGaz Prices at a Marine Chandlers website Sept 2008 (think cylinder means new, not exchange refill)

Camping Gaz - 901 £13.99 Cylinder £22.00

Camping Gaz - 904 £17.99 Cylinder £39.00

Camping Gaz - 907 £19.99 Cylinder £47.00

==Gas Safety==

Storage

Butane and Propane are both heavier than air so should not be used nor stored underground, or stored ''near'' drains and cellars

Regulators

A point that is worth making is that although most UK gas appliances are made to operate with Butane @28mb or Propane @37mb they will operate safely at either 37mb Butane or 28mb Propane. It is not recommended that this be done for extended periods, but it’s useful to know in an emergency. With a cooker the only concern is that the simmer levels on the hotplate may be different.

Transport

By air - compressed gas cartridges may not be taken on commercial flights

By road - Gaz containers can safely be transported by car, but it is advisable to avoid leaving them in direct sunlight. However, the manufacturer states that since they do not explode below 87°C (That's nice to know, Ed!!), they would actually be safe in a car parked in sunshine, since cars do not get any hotter than 60°C.

By tunnel - Eurotunnel permits the transportation of Camping Gaz through the channel tunnel, although they do not permit vehicles fuelled by LPG.

==Other Gas solutions==

'''jamesc76:''' I dont bother weighing mine any more as I have a Gaslow refillable bottle.

The best thing I have ever had - no need to worry - just nip to LPG garage and top it up!

'''Lloyd:''' (Westy Camper Reimo top)

We use the 6kg Calor propane bottle instead of the 4.5kg. Isn't easy to get into place, but it does fit!

If you kept the German regulator you can buy a small adapter that allows you to fit it onto UK Propane bottles. Available from Gaslow, called an Easyfit adapter (German Reg to UK Propane) part No 01-1674G its in the Gaslow catalogue for about 12 quid.
http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/gaslow_all_catalogue.htm
That might help with the pressure.
FYI, If you still have the beige or Grey German bottle, phone your local caravan place or Gaslow stockist place and ask nicely if they will refill it. Apparently some places will, it has 21.8LH fitting the same as Gaslow. Worth a shot !

==Rate of gas usage==

An idea of calculation is given below [http://www.calormarineshop.co.uk/marine_safety/gas_supplies_abroad.htm calormarineshop website]

For example, a Plastimo Neptune Hotplate burner has a heat input of 1.65kw, a grill burner 1.72kw and an oven 1.26kw. So if you were to use the oven and both hotplates for one hour a day then the sum would be:

Oven 1.26kw x 1 = 1.26
Hotplate 1.65kw x 2 = 3.30
Total 4.56kws per day

For the ease of the calculation both Butane and Propane has 14kw per 1kg so:

4.56 / 14 = 0.33kg per day

Say the crossing takes 30 days, that’s 30 x 0.33kg = 9.9Kg. So you’ll need to take 2 x 4.5kg Butane or 3 x 3.9kg Propane or 4 x 907 (2.72kg) Camping Gaz.

Camping Interior Leisure batteries that fit

2008-09-17T22:59:10Z

Lhd:

[http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Using%20a%20deep%20cycle%20battery%20as%20a%20starting%20battery Leisure battery deep cycling FAQ]

[http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/ Another Leisure battery FAQ]

Under seat Dimensions, 310 wide x 175 deep (front to back) x 190 high. these are absolute maximum a shade less would be better. I have measured to the bottom of a swivel seat on a camper.
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Leisure battery to fit under the seat in a T25? Haven't got the whole post, but these looked like the best candidates:

VA/W096 - Solent
£32.24 63Ah 2year 280 175 175

065TE - Exide Ultra
£43.79 60Ah 4year 242 175 175

096TE - Exide Ultra
£57.84 70Ah 4year 280 175 175

097TE - Exide Ultra
£43.79 60Ah 4year 242 175 175

090VSE - Exide classic
£47.79 60Ah 3year 242 175 175

095SE - Exide classic
£46.64 63Ah 3year 278 175 175

096SE - Exide classic
£42.77 63Ah 3year 280 175 175

100VSE - Exide classic
£59.20 70Ah 3year 280 175 175

'''N.B. they are not strictly leisure batteries, but high capacity batteries''' that should be hopefully able to stand a bit of deep cycling. PRICES DO NOT INCLUDE VAT

[http://www.furneauxriddall.com/ available from Furneaux Riddall]

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I have found several Numax 60Ah batteries that fit priced £38.60 plus vat (£45.59 delivered)

[http://www.tayna.co.uk/catalog/219/6/Car-Battery-by-Brand-Numax-Car-Batteries-page6.html/ available from Tayna Electrical Supplies (6 batteries on page 6)]

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Save on silly postage costs by using your local Manbat branch. They stock all the Numax batteries listed on Tayna and are most likely cheaper. (Although they recently told me on enquiry that they now only stock sealed maintenance free numax- i'd much prefer open cells)

[http://www.manbatbatteries.co.uk/branches.cfm/ Find your local Manbat branch]

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'''''Actual Leisure Batteries'''''

Some Varta and Delphi batteries are the right size. Though they range from around £60 - £90

http://www.barden-uk.com/marine-leisure-batteries.html

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elecsol 100Amp hour look like it may fit seen on this Ebay shop [http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Motoroam] or [http://www.motoroam.co.uk/]

[[Image:Elecsol-leisure-battery.jpg]]

An Elecsol 100 amp hour battery will fit in the box under your seat but a westy battery flap will not close and a seat without a swivel mech will foul the battery when slid back.

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If you look on the pages of SBMCC - by far the best resource for building campers, you'll see that most folks just say put the battery somewhere else. That way you can use a larger capacity battery (like 110AH) that'll last longer in use and not get discharged too much so extending the lifespan.