Westy Joker Charging question

[chrisevans]

Hi,
I am trying to work out why the charging system isnt working on 1987 Club Joker 3 . At the moment when the engine is running only the starter battery is charging (the cross feed is feeding 13v to a relay which doesn't look like VW equipment loose under the drivers seat). My question is what powers the relay or switches it . Also would this explain why the starter battery doesn't receive charge from the 240v charger unit. Does anyone have a simplified circuit for the split charge wiring

[chrisevans]

I charged the battery overnight. Does seem to br holding charge so will check this out first

[California Dreamin]

Hi,
I am trying to work out why the charging system isnt working on 1987 Club Joker 3 . At the moment when the engine is running only the starter battery is charging (the cross feed is feeding 13v to a relay which doesn't look like VW equipment loose under the drivers seat). My question is what powers the relay or switches it . Also would this explain why the starter battery doesn't receive charge from the 240v charger unit. Does anyone have a simplified circuit for the split charge wiring

Yes it looks a bit Heath Robinson but the standard Westy split charge relay is indeed in this position (5 terminal where the two outlets are live at the same time)
When the engine is running this relay opens to connect the starter to the leisure battery so both are being charged from the alternator. If both starter and leisure batteries are in a good charged state you should be getting a volt meter reading across each of the batteries in the range of 12.6 - 12.8 volts approx (engine turned off). Then, as soon as the engine has started and the ignition light has gone out, this reading should rise to between 13.9 - 14.2 volts......NOTE* both batteries...if the leisure voltage hasn't changed then that relay isn't switching and connecting the batteries.
The trigger for this 'split charge' relay is taken from the blue wire on the back of the alternator (ignition light).

The 230volt side is a different matter altogether.....you should have a seperate BBB charger unit (black buzzing box) under the offside of the rock n roll bed/seat. When the van is plugged into a mains leisure cable this box charges both starter and leisure batteries.
The most common fault on these is that they have simply blown the mini glass (2amp?) fuse inside the charger itself (4 screws on top to gain access) unplug from mains first .
Occasionally the thermo trip fuse (on top of the transformer) fails....this can also be replaced..but check the internal fuse first.
Goes without saying that both the trips on the RCD need to be checked and reset (next to the mains internal socket).

Martin

[chrisevans]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the info. As I am getting a charge from the BBB to at least one of the Batteries(LB I think) , then I presume that this is working fine. By the sound of it the relay doesn't seem to be working for some reason. I did have one question - does the BBB charge both LB and starter battery.

My next thought would be to trigger the relay manually to see what difference this make (as well as junking the LB for a new one) - does this make sense?

Chris

[California Dreamin]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the info. As I am getting a charge from the BBB to at least one of the Batteries(LB I think) , then I presume that this is working fine. By the sound of it the relay doesn't seem to be working for some reason. I did have one question - does the BBB charge both LB and starter battery.

My next thought would be to trigger the relay manually to see what difference this make (as well as junking the LB for a new one) - does this make sense?

Chris

Yes the BBB charges both batteries
Pretty sure there is a 25amp fuse somewhere between the two batteries, this can blow on initial start after the leisure has been heavily discharged.
It's also not that uncommon for the relay to burn out after a failed leisure battery has shorted internally etc. If you need to change it make sure it's the right type (not a change over)
You really need to seperately charge the leisure battery for a good 16 - 20 hours let it stand for half a day to see if it is holding at least 12.6 volts (it will probably read quite high just after taking it off charge but you need to see what it settles down to)

Martin

[chrisevans]

Hi Martin, luckily I found the receipt for the leisure battery and got a replacement FOC from GSF. Ok they didn't have the correct s4 that I took back but and s3 is almost as good. If I take a picture of ths relay could you confirm if it's the correct type? Regarsds, chris

[chrisevans]

[chrisevans]

Just noticed that despite my "it is the same size isnt it?" comment to the nice bloke behind the counter - it isnt! Either another trip (45mins to GSF or get them to drop it off for me) . Doh!

[California Dreamin]

Sorry mate...thats the wrong type....unfortunately thats a common change over relay that switches BETWEEN the two output terminals (87 & 87a).
What you are looking for in a 5 pin relay (SPST) that makes both outputs live at the same time (these have two 87 terminals) unfortunately these are pretty hard to come by.

Alternately you could use a standard heavy duty 4 pin relay but use a piggy back spade connector on pin 87 to which you connect both your outputs (those currently on 87 & 87a)

You might want to upgrade the relay..go for a 70amp 4 pin but again this would mean changing terminals on the feed and output wires to the larger type.

Either way look for a 40amp relay as a minimum.....

Martin

[chrisevans]

Cheers Martin - I will look into getting the right type of relay and get another battery from GSF

[chrisevans]

Hi Martin,

Just to be sure of my googling I have a part number : Bosch 0 332 019 150. Go Westy sell it for around £20 but I want to try to get hold of it a bit quicker.

Do you know what this would be called. A 12 v , 5 gang normally open /dual out put

Chris

[California Dreamin]

Hi Martin,

Just to be sure of my googling I have a part number : Bosch 0 332 019 150. Go Westy sell it for around £20 but I want to try to get hold of it a bit quicker.

Do you know what this would be called. A 12 v , 5 gang normally open /dual out put

Chris

Dual Make SPST Relay
12-14 volt 5 pin automotive relay SPST (single pole single make) but with double make. (has two number 87 terminals) although on rare occasions the second pin might be numbered 87b.
I suppose it should be called a SPDM (single pole double make) but it ISN'T)
Point is the schematic diagram needs to clearly show both outputs (87 & 87 OR 87 & 87b) go 'LIVE' at the same time.

Like I said....you could use a heavy duty relay with POSTS so the two outputs and one input (terminals 30 & 87) would need 6mm eyelts
Relay like this:
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/p ... ategory/36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Martin

[chrisevans]

http://www.thetoolboxshop.com/12v-make- ... -347-c.asp any of these any good?

[chrisevans]

And this isn't man enough?
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_255229

[California Dreamin]

Well I think I will have to come down from my high horse here and say although only rated at 30amps the relay below is similarly rated to the original one that Westfalia fitted which presumably worked fine for many years without issues.

http://www.thetoolboxshop.com/0-727-32- ... 2157-p.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Alternately (upgrade to a much more heavy duty relay)

http://www.thetoolboxshop.com/0-727-10- ... 2128-p.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And simply replace the terminals on your current wires going to 87 & 87a with 6mm eyelets and put these together on post numbered 87 and the wire going to 30 also replace for a 6mm eyelet and join to post numbered 30 on this new relay.
Swap over the last two terminals (should be numbered the same).

You will need three of these:
http://www.thetoolboxshop.com/0-001-22- ... 6074-p.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Halfords relay definately isn't man enough.

Martin