Andreas-springs: Third round

[PetenAli]

All mine arrived now. Rears arrived this morning. Thanks very much Andreas.

Just got to sort out shocks now. Going to take my time and get it right (I hope). As someone on here says (Andynewsyncro I think), "Do it once and do it right". Sound advice.

[PetenAli]

Pete, I'd be interested to hear what you end up doing. I've got standard shocks, Futbus 30mm lift spacers installed all round and his rear shock extenders. Plus, I have full set of Andreas springs waiting in the wings. While I wait for the piggybank to replenish I'm pondering what combination of parts can be fitted, including looking at new shocks with and without extenders. I watch with interest.

I did drive Mark's van in Spain and was impressed with the Andreas spring and new shock combo he now has.

Just to reopen this thread after a while. I had my Andreas springs fitted at Futbus a couple of weeks ago. After quite a bit of thought and discussion I decided to go with standard 14" Syncro shocks from BW. Dave fitted his top ball joint spacers and rear shock extensions. We have now done a 1000 miles including a trip to the Lakes with some mild off roading and the handling is just soooooo much better all round. Just need to replace the front bushes now and get a full wheel alignment done (just had the front tracking done initially) and that should be another bit sorted for as long as we have the Syncro. The only thing we may do is change the shocks if others come up that are demonstrably better. When it stops raining I'll get out and take some pics so that I can do a before and after comparison.

I know you've got other projects on at present Patrick (small matter of a roof!), but I would really recommend getting your springs fitted.

[garyd]

Hi,
I have resurrected this thread as it seems to contain the most info re shocks performance.

I needed new shocks recently when the rears started leaking more than they had before. Unfortunately, this was just when the standard shock became unavailable. A bit like an old tractor with a fixed rear end and the uncontrolled swing axle front. After looking around I decided to fit the Australian 'Pedders' units as these seemed to be close to the originals though they give a bit heavier damping.

Once on, it became obvious that the front shocks were also well past their best - the rear end was strongly controlling the body rather than both axles sharing. After significant consideration I was persuaded to go for the 16" fronts as I understood that these are stiffer than the 14" and would be a better match for the Pedders rears.

With these fitted the body is much better controlled, cornering considerably flatter and with less understeer. However, I am finding that the ride is very harsh. On concrete roads with the typical open construction joints the front end really bangs & crashes. Not good at all. What I am feeling puts me in mind of a comment from syncropaddy (I think) a couple of pages back when he talks about the loadings applied to the bodyshell and the effects that can have. The 16" shell had lots of extra strengthening - was that to accept the shock loadings? This is so harsh that I am thinking I need to go back to 14" fronts.

Now, I know I am only able to compare old 14" with new 16" but the difference is considerable. Does anyone have any experience of comparing the ride with new 14 & 16s?

I have looked at the IG16 charts of damper ratings posted a couple of pages back but have not made any real sense of them. Was an explanation of the findings posted anywhere? What I really need is to know the percentage difference in damping rates between the 14 & 16 front shocks. Can anyone help please?

thanks

[Simon Baxter]

What state is everything else in? ball joints, bushes, bearings?
And, judging by the ones Ive fitted and driven, if you have a Multivan is it heavy enough for the super-duty springs?
I drove a Multivan with 2WD HD front springs once and that was like a rollerskate, I can't imagine how stiff a Multivan is with Lidl springs.

[HarryMann]

... and I can't equate the stiffer front dampers with oversteer. Stiffer springs, arb or greater bump damping at the front should all lead to more understeer, a stable state.

[..lee..]

With under steer you see what you're going to hit. At least with over steer you're still looking where you're ment to be going and still living in hope.

[HarryMann]

Not when it's terminal Lee and you're spinning

[garyd]

Thanks for those responses. I may have caused some confusion by adding my question to the Lidl springs thread but it was where I had found the most info re choices of shocks.

My syncro is running on the (presumably 20 year old) original springs and until recently was on shocks likely to have been from the same date, too. The failing shocks lead to the changes and also to the understeer. With the new shocks the ride is much more controlled and the steering more precise (had new polybushes on the rack at the same time and new lower arm and TCA bushes not long before. Upper arm bushes are also good & tight.)

My question was to try to elicit info about the difference in damping rates between the 14 & 16 front dampers. With the new 16's fitted the ride is very harsh on rough road surfaces and inducing a lot of new rattles around the cab. Would I be better off changing again to 14's?

thanks

[HarryMann]

I would say yes Gary...

[PetenAli]

We have Andreas springs and did quite a bit of homework on new shocks before fitting them. Like you Gary we had 20+ year old springs and probably shocks as well. Handling was horrible. We ended up fitting new standard 14" shocks from BW all round and have been very pleased with the outcome both on and off road. We also have Futbus ball joint spacers on the front and shock extenders on the rear. This is on a Westy poptop so plenty of weight to contend with.

[garyd]

Thanks guys. 14" fronts now ordered.

[GoldSyncro]

Doe's that mean you have a good set of 16" dampers for sale at a reasonable price?

[stevealex]

I was just thinking that

Steve

[garyd]

It'll be a couple of weeks probably before I can swap them over and assess the difference.

After that, it is possible that a set will be for sale. As to 'reasonable price' - that may depend on each person's definition of 'reasonable' I suppose.

[garyd]

OK. 14" fronts now on and run to Busfest & back. Ride is much more civilised and the harshness is gone but it is still well controlled. Gave a good ride on the German trail & trial, too. Should never have let myself be persuaded to go for the harder 16s.

For those who showed interest in the 16" shocks - sorry but they're already gone. They got fitted on Simon Holloway's hightop ambulance at Busfest on Thursday evening.