1.9 Petrol - Not turning over - lights on dash, but nothing

[Wilf1234]

Hi all

We've just picked up a 1985 T3 1.9 Petrol, boxer engine, 99k miles

Van drove fine on very short test drive, but on way home it started cutting out on idle at traffic lights. It then refused to turn over (lights on dash, but not even a click from the starter), but I eventually got it started.

I tested the battery and alternator today (both seem ok) and put 20l of fuel in, hoping that it was because it was just running on fumes. But unfortunately it's done the same thing again this evening - ran ok for 10mins on my drive, auto choke seemed to go off pretty quickly. I drove it up and down a few times, but then it stalled and now is completely refusing to start.
 I presume it's the starter motor to check next, but are there any other obvious faults with these engines? (I'm a bit suspicious that there's not even a click from the starter motor)
 Is the starter motor an easy job to replace?
 We're so gutted, we've been trying to get hold of a vw for 20+ yrs!!
 Thanks for your help
 W

 
  
  
  

[TONYT25T25]

Check you have a good battery and is being charged from alternator, also check connections at starter motor end give them a good clean etc. Loads of posts on here regarding your probs so also do a search.

[davidoft1]

How fast are the wipers and the hazards ?

Is the charge light working ?

[Wilf1234]

How fast are the wipers and the hazards ?

Is the charge light working ?

Wipers and hazards both seem to be 'normal' speed.

Two red lights on the dash, oil and battery.

Thanks for your help.

[aec]

If the starter motor is turning over OK sometimes but sometimes nothing happens at all it could be the starter/ignition switch. The starter switch/wiring to the solenoid can get high enough resistance with age to cause problems getting the solenoid to engage (and make the starter motor turn).  I've added a relay in the engine compartment to get round this problem without needing to get a new ignition switch.

Could also be the solenoid which is mounted on the side of the starter.  When they are on the way out you can sometimes get them working again by giving the starter a sharp tap with a hammer.

That's just a temporary fix, but if the starter needs replacing it's an easy job.

 

[Wilf1234]

If the starter motor is turning over OK sometimes but sometimes nothing happens at all it could be the starter/ignition switch. The starter switch/wiring to the solenoid can get high enough resistance with age to cause problems getting the solenoid to engage (and make the starter motor turn).  I've added a relay in the engine compartment to get round this problem without needing to get a new ignition switch.

Could also be the solenoid which is mounted on the side of the starter.  When they are on the way out you can sometimes get them working again by giving the starter a sharp tap with a hammer.

That's just a temporary fix, but if the starter needs replacing it's an easy job.

Great, thanks for this.

I was about to give the starter a whack when I get back to the van this evening.

Is there any way to test if it's the starter/ignition? I assume we're talking about the ignition (key) barrel, or is there another seperate switch/relay somewhere between the key and the starter motor (or coil) that you're referring to?

Thanks again
 

[Shinnster]

If the starter motor is turning over OK sometimes but sometimes nothing happens at all it could be the starter/ignition switch. The starter switch/wiring to the solenoid can get high enough resistance with age to cause problems getting the solenoid to engage (and make the starter motor turn).  I've added a relay in the engine compartment to get round this problem without needing to get a new ignition switch.

Could also be the solenoid which is mounted on the side of the starter.  When they are on the way out you can sometimes get them working again by giving the starter a sharp tap with a hammer.

That's just a temporary fix, but if the starter needs replacing it's an easy job.

G

Is there any way to test if it's the starter/ignition?

Thanks again

you can remove the wire harness to the ignition barrel and bridge the 2 large cables ( they are much beefier cables than the others in the harness) and if the starter turns over then you have a dodgy ignition switch.
the wire harness just pulls out downwards.

[RogerT]

The wire from the ignition switch to the solenoid can corrode a lot in the engine bay, leading to high resistance/low voltage to the solenoid. I traced green corrosion back over a foot from the solenoid before giving up and replacing the whole cable all the way to the switch (with something heavier for best results). This cured my intermittent starting probs, no more trying to find downhill parking spaces.

Not sure that it would explain your engine ceasing to run in the manner you described, but bear in mind you may have more than one problem…

[Wilf1234]

So the van started again this morning (turned over immediately, and then took 10-15 secs to start), but after the auto choke turns off it just keeps stalling. If I can sort out that problem, at least the zero turn over problem won't be such an issue!! 

Is it just a question of adjusting the idle speed? (relatively easy to adjust?)

Also, I checked the fuel filter - it looks pretty exposed!! With the engine off it's only half full, with the level below the outlet - should it not be full or at least above the outlet level all the time? (see photo). The photo was taken just after it had stalled on idle for the third or fourth time!
[img]G:\Other computers\2014.12 Office HP\Photos\2022[/img]

[aec]

Unrelated to your starting issue but there are cracks on that fuel pipe.  Check them all very carefully, especially in the engine bay and replace anything that looks even slightly suspect with new fuel hose and ideally the correct type of fuse hose clip (i.e. not the jubilee clips you have there)

Google for the horror stories that can result in not doing this!

[Oldiebut goodie]

As above - fuel pipe and also - is that a crack that I see before me?

[Wilf1234]

Thanks both - it's just had it's MOT!!! Surely that should have been picked up!
I'll change the hoses.

Still no further with the stalling/starting issue.....

[Robsey]

An MOT will only pick it up if it is leaking.

If it has a hair-line crack and is sucking in air, then the MOT tester would need damn good eyesight underneath a big van.

To be honest, the barb on the left side of the filtet in the image is clearly visible, so it looks like the hose is hanging on with a wing and a prayer.
I am surprised it is not pee'ing out.

I presume the hoses have been trimmed multiple times due to cracked ends, and are now both too short.
You should not be able to see the narrow part of the filter barbs. The pipes should butt up to the shoulders.

[Robsey]

With regard to stalling when warm - assuming it isn't just fuel starvation after the choke has disengaged.
(Due to an air leak at the fuel filter).

Check the cam settings on the carburettor.
Fast idle cam etc.
It is quite easy to do if you have either a Haynes or Bentley guide to hand.
If it helps, the Pierburg 2e3 was used on lots of European cars in the 80s and 90s, so if you have an old Vauxhall or VW Haynes manual, then the carb will be featured in many of those.

On my 1987 Cavalier (mk2), it turned out that my auto-choke was faulty and I could not get it to idle.
I fitted an Alexander manual choke back then, but I was a lot more naive 28 years ago.

[Wilf1234]

Great, many thanks for this.

I'm now hoping it's a fuel starvation issue related to the crappy hoses. The filter itself seems ok (no cracks etc) but I'll whip it off tmrw and have a closer look. 

I;ve seen phots of other engines where the fuel filter is just in side the engine compartment - is that not a better set up?- it seems ridiculous having a plastic filter so badly exposed under the van!

I had the van running this afternoon and it seemed a bit more stable, although kept almost dying on idle (before recovering itself) - there was hardly any fuel in the filter when it was running, so an air leak here fits the bill pretty well.

I do have a Haynes manual, but really hope I don't have to get in to the carb!!!

Thanks again