Re-Titled - Fitting a DJ in place of a DF

[Robsey]

I think that I know the answer, but I am an avid believer that the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask.

So here we go.

I was commissioned * / conned * / emotionally blackmailed * ( * delete as appropriate), into attempting to repair a dead van.

Looking at my signature below \/ -
The van had a very poorly 1983 DF engine when I took on the task. - Partially dismantled by my late father-in-law in 1990 due to a blown out valve seat .
The van had not moved since - Until 2019 when I moved the van to an indoor unit to start on the woeful bodywork.

I have got a used 1987 DJ engine, with almost all the ancillary parts.

I know the DF has one of the lowest bhp values of the range, and the DJ appears to have the highest.

I have read many threads where people say ditch the Digijet and fit the Pierburg 2e3 (DG carb). - A carb is less problematic.

So here is the daft question - is it a total no-go to fit the Solex Pict carb set-up on the DJ engine.?

I assume that the Solex Carb would just strangle the Oomph out of the DJ due to the inherent restrictions of a single down-draught carb.
I also suspect that the Solex is probably very inefficient (mpg wise) compared to the more efficient Pierburg 2e3 and Digijet set-ups.

I am in a constant state of "originality versus updating the van".
Therefore Solex versus Digijet.

The missus has already said "Hell No!!" to recomissioning the DF even though I have everything needed, including two good cylinder heads.
Especially when I have a serviceable DJ with more than twice the bhp on offer.

She is a former girl-racer of the 1990s.

[ajsimmo]

I'd say it'd be pretty poor on the Solex, and converting the van to injection is more complex (but best if you don't mind the ball-ache and expense).
In your circumstances I'd probably get a Pierburg and manifold.

Sent from my moto g(30) using Tapatalk

[Robsey]

Cheers Fella,

I have everything I need to fit either the original DF or the Digijet set-up.
Including the full injection loom and modules.

The DG would probably just need a carb, and manifold and a bit of tweaking for the vacuum and cooling pipes.

Part of the reason that I have spent so long on the recomissioning, is that I have completely rebuilt all the looms and electrics to 1987 specs.

I have only the wiring for the sensors to make up, so I am hoping that any niggles caused by oxidised, dirty or damaged connectors and wiring will have been sorted. Although experience tells me that something will still pop up when I finally come to turn the key.

Sod's law and all that.

[ajsimmo]

Well if you've gone that far, stick the digijet on without a doubt.

Sent from my moto g(30) using Tapatalk

[Smiffo]

Forget the Solex. I had a DG with Solex carb abortion fitted when I bought mine.
Aside from very poor performance, the cooling is different. Solex doesn't use the coolant to operate the choke etc, so I had a mare swapping to a Pierburg.

Not sure how cooling is done on a DJ with no carb though, but something to look out for.

You also need the inlet manifold ( from memory ) as they are different for DF..

E D I T: Check here for an amusing story     viewtopic.php?t=147477


 

[Robsey]

As irony would have it, I read your story earlier when I was considering my options.

I guessed it would be a big no for the Solex, but my thoughts were regarding reliability of carb versus digijet.

I had a 2e3 on my 1987 Cavalier mk2. Apart from a wonky auto-choke the car pulled like a train.
Brilliant performance for a 1300cc.
Alexander manual choke conversion sorted the random stalling when coming to a halt.

The Pierburg 2e3 is a brilliant carb that was used on many cars until carbs were phased out around 1992.

So a DJ and Digijet it is...
And all my DF stuff to go on sale.

[Robsey]

Rather than starting a new thread -
And I apologise in advance because I know that this conversation has been discussed ad-nauseum for a DG, but...

I am sure that I read somewhere that the DF may have some smaller diameter / bore coolant hoses somewhere within the cooling circuit.

I am planning to fit the DJ (87) as a complete lump in place of the DF (83),

For the sake of not wasting time and money,
I am assuming that I can slot the DJ in, by simply fitting the DF thermostat housing and by removing the oil-cooler.
The rest should be "plug and play"?,
Or am I being a bit naive / simplistic in my thoughts.

I understand that fundamentally the external plumbing of all wasserboxer engines should be the same, with some internal tweaks on later engines.

I am still sorting through piles of parts from the DF that was partly disassembled in 1991.
And also DJ parts that I purchased around 2014.

Having been dormant for 30 years, the DF hoses appear to have had a very easy life, and look in excellent condition.
It looks like the father-in-law had fitted copper piping under the van from the radiator to the engine bay hoses (he was a British Gas engineer in his hey day), so I presume he used pipe available from work).

So thinking "waste not, want not", I am considering what I should use, without compromising the cooling of the DJ engine.

If it helps, I have a DJ thermostat housing, and the pipe-work and hoses to the water-pump, header tanks and the pulley end of the block - but not the distribution junction pipe assembly or associated hoses.



Any thoughts and recommendations?
I hope my verbal diarrhea has not confused matters.

Thanks in advance,
Rob.

[Smiffo]

In my minimal experience, but knowing I bought a van that was originally a DF, and a previous owner left everything intact ( inlet and intake manifold, cooling pipes etc ) but substituted in a DG engine, I would say it will work as DJ is similar.

The difference appeared to be port size in the heads but it did work albeit with lower power.

I think this is the gist of your question.

What I would say is that if you are going from early engine to late engine, I think there is an additional oil pressure sensor in the late engine you would have to work around / mitigate / block off?

Happy for those more proficient in specific differences to advise on that or shoot me down totally!! 

[Robsey]

Ah yes, I read your thread earlier this week - it was most insightful, thank-you.
Indeed there is a second sensor for the buzzer of doom (dynamic oil pressure system) on the DJ block just below the crank pulley.

I know opinions are divided whether to include this or to omit it from the final installation.
I have the full 1987 looms to allow wiring in of everything, however I have an early instrument cluster.
It has a modified AngeloEVS pcb, so gives me the early cluster with later pin-order and the option to use or omit the dops.
It is possible to add in the dops pcb - it is only 6 wires, or better still simply wire in a pressure sensor and pressure gauge.



I am confident about the electrics, but being on a limited budget, I want to plumb in the engine safely without throwing money at the van un-necessarily on parts that I would not need.
These vans are money-pits to begin with - ha ha

[Smiffo]

I think you will be good with this plan.
Don't forget to do a thread on it!! 

[Mocki]

I wouldnt bother with a oil pressure gauge, it will only scare you .
If your loom is all good, and the engine is all good , refit the BoD , you do need a warning, engines are expensive !!

[Robsey]

I wouldnt bother with a oil pressure gauge, it will only scare you .
If your loom is all good, and the engine is all good , refit the BoD , you do need a warning, engines are expensive !!

if reconfiguring a whole van after 30 years of decay doesn't scare you, a pressure gauge shouldn't be too bad.

but I understand what you are saying.

to be honest, there isn't much about any part of the van that isn't rediculously expensive.

[Robsey]

There is an obvious issue with the DF thermostat housing...
There is nowhere for the coolant temperature 'sensor II' for the DJ ECU.
So I have no choice but to fit the DJ thermostat housing and keep the oil cooler in the cooling circuit.

Therefore the most relevant question is -
Which distribution junction pipe do I use ?
The early DF/DG (1983/84) "H" distribution junction pipe,
The early-late (1985) or late-late (1986 ->) manual distribution junction pipe?

To clarify -
early cooling system around and forwards of the engine bay -
Injection engine being fitted.

[Mocki]

Honestly i am surprised that you are not changing the van to later cooling system , you are not far off if you are keeping the late system on the engine ?

Just for your info, the early system metal crossover coolant pipe with the temp sender for the carb heater on the DG is different to the same pipe for a DF .
That sender would be your “temp2” port , if you can get a temp2 switch that fits that pipe ??? Cross referencing all VAG of the age should find one , afterall, DH engines were early too, but I’m not sure if they were digifant, or digijet

[Robsey]

I am happy to "do" whatever is the most cost-effective.

My hesitance or lack of direction is due to the complexity of the cooling system hose network used.
And "early" just looks so different to "late".

I am sure it is not that complicated in reality, but as the DJ engine is in the back yard and the van is in storage seven miles away, it is not easy to just pop out and compare bits 'n' bobs.

Just for your info, the early system metal crossover coolant pipe with the temp sender for the carb heater on the DG is different to the same pipe for a DF .
That sender would be your “temp2” port , if you can get a temp2 switch that fits that pipe ???

Now that sounds very interesting.
I believe it is an M10 x 1 thread as used on many VW threaded sensors.