Plumbing advice request - Motorised Valve

[shaky]

Hi all,

Are there any plumbers out there that can advise?... (I know its not T25 stuff but there is a pool of knowledge out there on this forum).

We've had our heating and plumbing completely re done this year. I did have a thread earlier this year about our issues with our plumber, who turned out to be a bit of a cowboy.

Our upstairs heating is a separate feed from the boiler and has is controlled by its own thermostat to a motorised valve (A Banico ZV22). Now that we've started to use the heating for the first time we've noticed how noisy the valve is. (The plumber doesn't want to know us so we're on our own). It buzzes and reverberates to the upstairs pipes.
Once up to temperature the thermostat cuts it off and all is quiet. The thing is when the heating is off (ie night) then its buzzing away and the switch does get quite warm.
The only way round this is to remember to turn the thermostat down each night which is a pest.

Should the motor buzz all the time? If not is there a solution without having to get the plumbers back in....

B.T.W there is a switch on the back of it but even the instructions don't say what it does.

Any theories welcome

Thanks,

Paul.

[Timburrows]

Switch may be an over ride,the buzzing and getting hot our three way valve did and it turned out to be the motor, I changed it for a new won from screwfix which stopped the buzzing and heat.three screws and a wire connector job done!!!! If it's the same as yours cheep fix ps don't forget to turn off the lecky or you'll get a shock!!!!!!!!!!!,

[syncropatrick]

I've had two 2-way valve failures. First time paid £100 for the part and a plumber to fit it. Second did it myself for £8.90 in 20 minutes this morning. Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyn_fBEH90U was extremely helpful in explaining how the valves work, fail and can be fixed.

[lloydy]

that make valve is nasty cheap stuff. the good news for you is the much better honeywell valve is a direct replacement, you can just swap the heads over, then the wires. So no getting wet. This is assuming you valve is the metal silver type one, don't know about a switch on it? there is a lever which you can slide across, but this just manually opens the valve for draining filling purposes.. changing the valve head is pretty simple, happy to talk you through it if you want to do it yourself.
little wiring diagram here
http://www.electriciansblog.co.uk/wp-co ... iagram.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
follow the line from the heating on connection on the programmer and you will see how the power flows to the valve through the stat.

as you can see in a normally wired system the room stat does not send any power to the valve unless your heating timer is in the on position. So what position the 'stat is in should make no difference...

[shaky]

syncropatrick: Thanks the video does help me get my head round how they work.

that make valve is nasty cheap stuff. the good news for you is the much better honeywell valve is a direct replacement, you can just swap the heads over, then the wires. So no getting wet. This is assuming you valve is the metal silver type one, don't know about a switch on it? there is a lever which you can slide across, but this just manually opens the valve for draining filling purposes.. changing the valve head is pretty simple, happy to talk you through it if you want to do it yourself.
little wiring diagram here
http://www.electriciansblog.co.uk/wp-co ... iagram.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
follow the line from the heating on connection on the programmer and you will see how the power flows to the valve through the stat..

Thanks for the advice lloydy. I'll look into the better quality valve... It doesn't surprise me that the valve is a cheap one... The plumber had a "use cheap stuff charge premium price attitude". I will no doubt be back for further advice.

as you can see in a normally wired system the room stat does not send any power to the valve unless your heating timer is in the on position. So what position the 'stat is in should make no difference...

That is interesting I will take a look at the timer as well.

[New Kentish Campers]

I too zoned my heating system when I replaced the boiler a few years ago. [woodburner on downstairs kept kicking the room 'stat off so it was also cold upstairs and the wife kept moaning]

I used a Honeywell S plan configuration with [28mm pipe] motorised valves, each with their own 'stat and I have to say that it runs silently so it certainly sounds wrong to me.

I hope you get it sorted out.

[Eloise]

How easy is it to fit the gearbox back on to the valve? It looked tricky on the you tube vid. I only 6" of space and that is only on two sides.

Cheers

[syncropatrick]

How easy is it to fit the gearbox back on to the valve? It looked tricky on the you tube vid. I only 6" of space and that is only on two sides.

Cheers

Very easy.

[lloydy]

It's the easiest of easy jobs, top tip is to put the old valve and new valve in the manually open position before removing the head. Then when you swap the heads over they just fit straight on. Clearances on either side aren't an issue, you just need space from the top.
Only thing that can cause a problem is when you take the cover off the wiring centre to swap the wires over, sometimes these are like a rats nest and you can dislodge wires without knowing it. You then have to work out where they go
My firm supply us with a 5 way plug and we join the old cable to new without going in the wiring centre.
Changing just the sychron motor is pretty simple too. One or two tiny screws depending on model holding it in, only gotcha is dropping the screw when you remove them. They have a homing device built in that finds any crack, and they've gone!

[shaky]

How easy is it to fit the gearbox back on to the valve? It looked tricky on the you tube vid. I only 6" of space and that is only on two sides.

I think this will be a relatively easy job for me, plenty of space to get at the head and gearbox, but it is the wiring that puzzles.

Our new system is a combi boiler setup with no cylinder, (A Worcester 42 CDi with built in 20DT timer). A heating pipe leads from the top of the boiler controlled by the "dodgy" valve. There is the same below the boiler for the downstairs radiators with what looks like a bypass circuit . I guess for when the boiler is on and the thermostats say no.

The "downstairs" valve is silent but the problem upstairs one buzzes even when the timer has the boiler as off. The only way to silence it is to lower the thermostat temp upstairs. I guess that this mean it has not been wired through the boiler timer. I wonder why?

[lloydy]

righto, with the timer in the on position and the downstairs and upstairs stat turned right down does the boiler fire up? (shouldn't do)
if you now just turn up the upstairs stat does the boiler fire up? (should do if it is wired to the boiler)


Basically the two port valves have 5 wires..
yellow/green = earth
blue = neutral
grey = permanent live
brown = 240v from room/cylinder stat
orange = 240v(from valve) to switch live connection on boiler.

so basically when the stat calls for heat the brown wire goes live, this makes the valve open. once fully open the orange wire goes live and fires the boiler up.
you could always have a look and see if the orange wire for the upstairs valve is connected to anything

[Eloise]

It's the easiest of easy jobs, top tip is to put the old valve and new valve in the manually open position before removing the head. Then when you swap the heads over they just fit straight on. Clearances on either side aren't an issue, you just need space from the top.
Only thing that can cause a problem is when you take the cover off the wiring centre to swap the wires over, sometimes these are like a rats nest and you can dislodge wires without knowing it. You then have to work out where they go
My firm supply us with a 5 way plug and we join the old cable to new without going in the wiring centre.
Changing just the sychron motor is pretty simple too. One or two tiny screws depending on model holding it in, only gotcha is dropping the screw when you remove them. They have a homing device built in that finds any crack, and they've gone!

It looks like mine is a 3 way. Put the long number in to eBay search and 003 at the end denotes 3 way. You mention the open position? Which is this? Problem I have is the boiler sends hot water to the tank when switched on at the controller, but when I want the heating on, I have to push the arm to the back, it then turns on the heating as well. I presume the motor has packed up, either that or the thermostat, but the stat will turn it off, so I'm assuming that works.

Just need to know where the arm needs to be for the open position?

Cheers

[lloydy]

if you have the honeywell type valve, then the manually open position for the arm is.... look at the slot the arm moves in, you'll see where you can hook it.
To be honest though, every time your hot water comes on the motor will release the arm putting you back at square one.
Sounds like you need a new head on the valve

[shaky]

righto, with the timer in the on position and the downstairs and upstairs stat turned right down does the boiler fire up? (shouldn't do)
if you now just turn up the upstairs stat does the boiler fire up? (should do if it is wired to the boiler)


Basically the two port valves have 5 wires..
yellow/green = earth
blue = neutral
grey = permanent live
brown = 240v from room/cylinder stat
orange = 240v(from valve) to switch live connection on boiler.

so basically when the stat calls for heat the brown wire goes live, this makes the valve open. once fully open the orange wire goes live and fires the boiler up.
you could always have a look and see if the orange wire for the upstairs valve is connected to anything

The boiler does as you say. Thermostats down and the boiler flame is off. Turn up the upstairs thermostat and the boiler fires up.

So still puzzled as to why the valve motor buzzes while the boiler is off. I can see me getting another head for it at this rate.

I will take a look at the wiring tomorrow once I've done my chores for SWMBO!


Thanks for the help Lloydy.

[Eloise]

Cheers lloydy, I have seen the hooks in the arm track. I haven't hooked it in any. Hot water has always been fine and automatic. Heating packed up after three week away with it being switched off. Not worked right since so I set it on manually pushing the arm. Will try a new unit and see if that works.

Thanks for the advice, appreciate it.