Not a restoration.

[937carrera]

I'm thinking mains rather than big ends now, either way once you are in there you'll be replacing both.

Glad to hear the rest of the engine seems in decent fettle, that's good news.

I expect you'll be reviewing Itchys threads on fitting a speedisleeve if the sealing surface is worn, alongside setting the endfloat.

You'll probably want to inspect the oil pump as well. I don't know what the availability of quality spares is for the WBX, but if you want to read about how to recondition one there's a pretty impressive thread on The Samba https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... p?t=693726. Oil pumps in good condition for the air cooled type 4 engine are getting hard to come by, aftermarket stuff can require machining to fit. Frightening attention to detail, even if everything is imperial.

[itchyfeet]

How do you know it had low pressure, did you measure it? what were the measurements? What oil were you using?

Crank main journals and main bearings seldom have alot of wear, people get 500HP out of these engines with a turbo the crank and bottom end is built like a brick **** house.

Big ends more likely worn or the cam bearings, either way you have to split the case measure up and replace bearings as a minimum.

I have also seen poor quality tappets give low oil pressure, they went in were run for 20 mins until hot them promptly removed again pressure was hopeless but what it proves to me was that worn tappets can be responsible for low oil pressure too as can worn tappet bores.

Poor quality oil pump can also cause low pressure, tolerances vary considerably.

Clattering can be due to tappets drained down so if say you had a massve oil leak from a blown push rod seal or the oil pressure sender fail or a push rod cover then the pressure falls off the tappets drain down it clatters like an 80's diesel on startup and you loose power, happened to me when my sump plug rattles out.

Over heatings caused by compression seal failure due to that sudding bodge.

you may find it's nothing like as bad as you expect.


getting a machine shp to measure up is one option but I bought a micrometer set for £100 and a internal dial bore gauge set for abou £25 you can get micrometers on ebay second hand too so you may be able to get the tools for £50 quid and I'd expect thats what You would pay a machine shop to measure up?

crank gear puller is 50 quid if I remember not seen them second hand but you could probably improvise one if you have access to any sort of workshop

[bigbadbob76]

First off- Thanks for everyone's help, I'm an electronics engineer by trade but an engine tinkerer by habit so I'm not totaly new to this but need advice to keep me right.

Carrera, thanks for the link about oil pump, I'll check that out and search for speedisleeve too, that's a new one on me.

Itchyfeet wrote-How do you know it had low pressure, did you measure it? what were the measurements? What oil were you using?

Yes, I measured it, can't find my notes on it just now but it was definately under 2 bar at 2000rpm after a 20 min run and the oil light flashed at idle once the engine was up to temperature. Oil is Total Quartz 5000 15w-40 mineral. was changed a few hundred miles ago.

Crank main journals and main bearings seldom have alot of wear, people get 500HP out of these engines with a turbo the crank and bottom end is built like a brick **** house.
Good to know.

Big ends more likely worn or the cam bearings, either way you have to split the case measure up and replace bearings as a minimum.
It looks easy enough to split the con rod big ends through the case, this wouldn't let me see the mains or crank bearings though. Cams look good from here, no scoring or discolouration.

I have also seen poor quality tappets give low oil pressure, they went in were run for 20 mins until hot them promptly removed again pressure was hopeless but what it proves to me was that worn tappets can be responsible for low oil pressure too as can worn tappet bores.
Has anyone done measurements of their tappets and bores? how much is too much wear?

Poor quality oil pump can also cause low pressure, tolerances vary considerably.
All food for thought, thanks for the warnings.

Clattering can be due to tappets drained down so if say you had a massve oil leak from a blown push rod seal or the oil pressure sender fail or a push rod cover then the pressure falls off the tappets drain down it clatters like an 80's diesel on startup and you loose power, happened to me when my sump plug rattles out.
Would a broken ring clatter? I found one on Cyl No 2 this morning, it's an old break and ties in with that cyl being lower compression than the rest, the bore is scored deep enough to feel with my nail but isn't what i'd call a gouge, hopefully it will hone out. Pic to follow.
I have a new set of rings so they might as well go in. The rest of the ring gaps are on or close to limits at the bottom of the bore where bentley suggests measuring them.
I havn't got access to a bore guage but the ring gaps are well in spec throughout the stroke using new rings so I'm happy to re-use the barrells and just give them a quick hone. Any suggestions of a good honing tool? or what ones to avoid?

My high pressure oil switch has been removed, maybe due to someone stripping the thread, and the hole filled with what looks like liquid metal. Hopefully that stuff is not reducing oil flow somewhere it shouldn't.


Over heatings caused by compression seal failure due to that sudding bodge.
I've got all the studding out without issue and can confirm there are helicoils in there, not thread inserts. I could maybe remove the helicoils but need to check what tap size is used for an M10 helicoil first as the original holes may have been drilled and tapped.
E D I T- looks like they're M12X1.5, so fingers crossed I can remove them cleanly.
Can you confirm the M12 end of original studs is 1.5mm pitch? as I mentioned on the head stud thread, I could turn down and re-thread the M12 end of new studs to M10, Or make new from M10 round bar. If I can't get the helicoils out without making a pigs ear of the case.

you may find it's nothing like as bad as you expect.
Fingers crossed.


getting a machine shp to measure up is one option but I bought a micrometer set for £100 and a internal dial bore gauge set for abou £25 you can get micrometers on ebay second hand too so you may be able to get the tools for £50 quid and I'd expect thats what You would pay a machine shop to measure up?
I have access to bigger micrometers at work, mine are both 1" max which doesn't help much, all ours are american/imperial but that's fine, Bentley gives inperial measurements.
Will have to check if we have a bore guage.

crank gear puller is 50 quid if I remember not seen them second hand but you could probably improvise one if you have access to any sort of workshop.
I'm sure I can fabricate something.

I'm borrowing a valve spring compressor tonight so will read up on Itchylinks for how to check guide wear.

[937carrera]

Picking up on points where I can help:

Big ends more likely worn or the cam bearings, either way you have to split the case measure up and replace bearings as a minimum.
It looks easy enough to split the con rod big ends through the case, this wouldn't let me see the mains or crank bearings though. Cams look good from here, no scoring or discolouration.

I think you could do that too, but you will surely only be able to inspect the bearings / journals, not measure accurately, which is why you'll need to dismantle

My high pressure oil switch has been removed, maybe due to someone stripping the thread, and the hole filled with what looks like liquid metal. Hopefully that stuff is not reducing oil flow somewhere it shouldn't. .

An excellent opportunity to repair properly, given the bodgery I would probably opt for Timesert

Over heatings caused by compression seal failure due to that studding bodge. (added the t)
I've got all the studding out without issue and can confirm there are helicoils in there, not thread inserts. I could maybe remove the helicoils but need to check what tap size is used for an M10 helicoil first as the original holes may have been drilled and tapped.
E D I T- looks like they're M12X1.5, so fingers crossed I can remove them cleanly.
Can you confirm the M12 end of original studs is 1.5mm pitch? as I mentioned on the head stud thread, I could turn down and re-thread the M12 end of new studs to M10, Or make new from M10 round bar. If I can't get the helicoils out without making a pigs ear of the case.

I can't check against my stock at the moment but an M10 helicoil uses a 10.4mm drill, so the original thread may still be there, as I think the outside thread is M12. Easiest way to confirm will be to pick / wind the helicoil out and then try an M12 x 1.5 bolt in there. I got the data from ETKA, the VW electronic parts catalogue (Elektronic Teile KAtalog ???, never thought of that before)

Itchy has asked his WBX friends, lets see what they say on turning the M12 end down. I have seen the effects of failure to stress relieve a component which failed - 19mm diameter engineering steel on a suspension component. I think your worst case scenario is putting M12 Timeserts in which need an M14 hole I believe. As they are widely available I assume there is plenty of material to put them in.

[bigbadbob76]

Hi Carrera.
Good points, the case split has started (after removing the con rods and dropping a nut that missed the sheet of paper there to catch it )
Some of the case studs were stuborn but they submitted in the end.
The flywheel bolts however are resisting my efforts and getting chewed in the process, even a good heating hasn't shifted more than one of them.
I think it's too late for an impact driver, Maybe I can get some more 10mm allen keys and weld them in one at a time.

A closer look at the helicoils suggests I can pick them out and fit new studs.

[937carrera]

I think it's too late for an impact driver, Maybe I can get some more 10mm allen keys and weld them in one at a time.

You never know what tools people have

You really need a allen socket, generally keys just twist or chew up. This is where having either en electric or pneumatic impact gun makes the job so much easier. If the hex is already worn then here's a couple of "in the field" suggestions, both destructive. Either try and hammer a torx socket in or see if you can chisel an edge in the head of the allen head and hammer the bolt undone. Failing that the weld approach should work, sounds like an excess of loctite.

A few months ago I recently had to strip an engine with Torx 50 socket heads, 24 of them. On one side my usual T50 head stared to twist at the end, I bought a new socket, that just snapped, borrowed a snap on and the bolts on one side came out. On the other side I went through 2 normal snap on bits and a snap on impact bit started to twist in the same way as my normal bit. Good job they are guaranteed for life.

In the end I had to drill down the head of the bolt until each of them went ping. All except one which had a broken bit in the end. That was more difficult to get out, but I managed in the end. The studs themselves simply screwed out by hand once the tension was released. I probably spent the best part of 3 days learning how to do that job. Next time they will either come out first time or be drilled.

A closer look at the helicoils suggests I can pick them out and fit new studs.

That sounds like good news. By the way Aldi / Lidl have regular tool offers & their tap & Die sets are ok for £15 - includes a thread gauge too

[itchyfeet]

Wow too many questions, I can't keep up

[itchyfeet]

A closer look at the helicoils suggests I can pick them out and fit new studs.

that really would be good news, I'd want to check the M10 helicoil tap is a standard M12 thread though as said.

can't find my notes on it just now but it was definately under 2 bar at 2000rpm after a 20 min run and the oil light flashed at idle once the engine was up to temperature

well spec is 2 bar min at 80 degrees, after 20 min run you will be at 100 and it could be less that 2 bar but still in spec at 80, oil light flast could be a faulty sensor.

Has anyone done measurements of their tappets and bores? how much is too much wear?

Not me and I don't think many have, VW made sleeves but they would be expensive to fit, there is no published spec on wear limits.

Would a broken ring clatter? I found one on Cyl No 2 this morning, it's an old break and ties in with that cyl being lower compression than the rest, the bore is scored deep enough to feel with my nail but isn't what i'd call a gouge, hopefully it will hone out

No I doubt a broken ring would clatter but I'd bet that won't hone out.

Any suggestions of a good honing tool?

Laser 2070 Barrel 3 stone honing tool is fine

[itchyfeet]

Good points, the case split has started (after removing the con rods and dropping a nut that missed the sheet of paper there to catch it )

You made the right choice it does not cost that much more for bearings and then you know it's as good as you can do, if you put it back and still had problems you would kick yourself.

Your need a quality allen 1/2 inch socket and a 2ft breaker bar to get the flywheel off... drill the head off perhaps the bit left will just wind out?

[itchyfeet]

check the con rod bolts are not stretch, if they are then bin them and buy non stretch

stretch have longer threads, see both types here...

P1090023 by Paul_Barr, on Flickr

[bigbadbob76]

Thanks for all the answers Paul. I'm losing track of it too. haha.
I've yet to find anything that would clatter so maybe it was just drained down tappets due to thin oil/low pressure.
Pressure switch was new 18 months ago and my guage was also indicating low pressure when I last did that check so I believe the light.

You never know what tools people have

A mate just dropped by with a set of external easy-outs (easy offs?) I hate easy outs with a passion as they often snap and then you're screwed (rather than un-screwed) but these worked a treat and I got the flywheel off. yipee.
Sounds like you had a right mission getting thoseTorx bolts out mate, perseverance won in the end though. good job.

Con rod bolts are stretch, thanks for the pic Paul, I'll put them on the order list.
Unfortunately BW are out of stock of the long head studs.

[937carrera]

OK then

You never know what mates people have

Glad you got that done, I hadn't seen those external bolt extractors before so something learnt tonight.

VW Heritage have the head stud kits in stock https://www.vwheritage.com/025198143a-c ... r-vw-spare.

Have you tested the thread with the helicoil out yet ?

[bigbadbob76]

VW Heritage have the head stud kits in stock https://www.vwheritage.com/025198143a-c ... r-vw-spare.

Have you tested the thread with the helicoil out yet ?

Cheers for the link. I'm having a celebratory beer with my good lady now, haha. Will pull a helicoil tomorrow.

[itchyfeet]

Unfortunately BW are out of stock of the long head studs.

Brickwerks state VW classic, you can order direct but may take a while to come

Does not say who the manufacturer is..
https://www.vwbusshop.de/epages/GuenzlC ... /025101143" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


there is also this but it's not VW it's aftermarket.
https://www.vwheritage.com/025101143-cy ... m-vw-spare" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

no idea if aftermarket is any different from VW

[bigbadbob76]

Split the cases today.
Took the crank and camshaft to work to use the puller and do some measuring.
Everything on the crank is in spec. so just new shells and bearings needed there, be daft not to.
can't find specs for the camshaft bearings or lobes, will replace bearings anyway.

there is also this but it's not VW it's aftermarket.
https://www.vwheritage.com/025101143-cy ... m-vw-spare" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

no idea if aftermarket is any different from VW

Much cheaper than Bw. hmmm... gotta be better than the studding that was in there though.

Before I split the cases I made a jig and measured crank end-float..... 0.35mm
I didn't find a shim retainer ring in there, Is it a)fitted in the late 1.9? and b) included in the shim calculation?
by my maths I need 3 new shims of 0.4mm each.

My shims- 0.36 + 0.30 + 0.3 (+ 0.35 end float) -0.1 desired endfloat = 1.21mm total shim thickness.
3 x 0.4 = 1.2