mrhutch wrote: Then again, you could spend 6K+ on a good westy and have the reliablity and creature comforts of a modern car
Then again you could look in Technical at the number of broken JX and 1Y diesels of late and the number of 'Westy' technical issues and spend your money on a very nice Komet or Villa or Leisuredrive or similar.
The truth of the matter is that buying anything 20 years old is largely down to pot luck.
Ian.
True, but there was this old Myth that diesels go on forever and do not die! It is indeed a myth - the moving metal parts wear out, and they definitely don't like a cooking! In reality a worn petrol engine will still go - as long as spark and fuel vapour meet in correct proportions. A diesel needs alot of compression to fire - worn out, they don't start very well!
Dartmoor wrote: True, but there was this old Myth that diesels go on forever and do not die!
As a reformed van driver I used to run a quarry stores collection & delivery and had 3 vehicles at my disposal (all of them diesel) :-
Astramax which used to hit the rev limiter every time you tried to overtake anything ... which is fun when you're fully comitted
Transit 2.5 DI (6 speed inc 3 & 4 overdrive ) I did 386,000 miles in that van and the engine was serviced but never had the top off ... the body constantly cracked and the overdrive switch cable broke but otherwise it was superb
Iveco Cargo 7.5 Eurotech etc etc I did 80,000 klicks in 1 year in it and other than it being 'set' to 56mph it weren't bad but GOD was it frustrating
Moral of the story is no-matter how good or bad these were I now CHOOSE to drive a gas-powered VW because that's better (although the same era) than all of them.
Ian
The Hulley's Bus 1989 2.1DJ Trampspotter LPG courtesy of Steve @ Gasure
Just out of curiosity I checked the prices of 'Bays' and was suprised at the high prices being asked. Like others have said, I would now be inclined to keep the Wedge with all of its advantages and replace the engine. Given that you like the a/c and drive reasonably light footed it should last another 120K if not more with regular servicing. I thought the parts for the a/c were easier to source than for the WBX'r but correct me if i am wrong. If you asked the same question on a forum for Splitty's and 'Bays' you will get a completely different and opposing view to those on here. For me the Wedge has more appeal and is more practical as a camper than the 'Bay'. High Top 'Bays' look awkward but the 'pop tops' do have a charm of their own but are far too expensive if the prices I have seen are anything to go by.
Thanks for all the comments from everyone - will keep the T25 at the moment. A friend of mine has a Brazilian Bay - I have to say it is nice - brand new. Sensibly they bought the basic shell from Danbury and did the conversion themselves - saving an absolute fortune! And have a new camper van as a result. Need to save up a bit more first, so will keep the T25 for the mo!
ricicles wrote:you are being daft! have you driven one
i would be having dangerous thoughts too if you think a 1600 bay is more economical and there is no difference in performance !! I think your engine is knackered mate!!! I have a garage full of type 4 engines and spares... you tell me what you need?? i tell you how much
I think my engine is fine - I was comparing to a 2003 Danbury 1.6i a.c Bay which we hired before I bought the T25. The 1.6i new a.c engine from South America was willing enough, and absolutely more economical than the 2.0 litre I have.
what planet are you on??? you cant compare one of them crapy brazilian rust buckets with a new engine to a 25 year old vehicle thats just so wrong!!!!!
He fought his first battle on the Scottish Highlands in 1536... There can only be one...
Ouch I have hit a raw nerve! Have you really seen the Brazilian Bays? Sure the metal is not galvanised, so it needs protecting - no different from the original - AND the T25!
Dartmoor wrote:Ouch I have hit a raw nerve! Have you really seen the Brazilian Bays? Sure the metal is not galvanised, so it needs protecting - no different from the original - AND the T25!
not a raw nerve!! its just a plain stupid comparison, its like comparing a austin maxi to a brand new ford focus!!!! you obviously dont know what you are talking about!!! there is a huge difference in the materials that were used to manufacture brazilian bays!!! they dont use the same quality materials due to the warm dry climate where vehicles dont rust like they do here, i have seen many that are rusting away even after being waxoiled!!! my brother stupidly bought a brand new one about 4 years ago which is in worse condition than my 1982 van and failed its mot last year with rot around the jacking points!!!!
He fought his first battle on the Scottish Highlands in 1536... There can only be one...
not a raw nerve!! its just a plain stupid comparison, its like comparing a austin maxi to a brand new . . focus!!!! you obviously dont know what you are talking about!!! there is a huge difference in the materials that were used to manufacture brazilian bays!!! they dont use the same quality materials due to the warm dry climate where vehicles dont rust like they do here, i have seen many that are rusting away even after being waxoiled!!! my brother stupidly bought a brand new one about 4 years ago which is in worse condition than my 1982 van and failed its mot last year with rot around the jacking points!!!![/quote]
Well, I do beg to differ. I have seen 5 year old Brazilian Bays with no rust. In a way you are right re Maxi vs Focus. Going back to my original thoughts, trouble with my 1981 van is that 90% of it is now 28 years old - and things are failing one by one. Mechanical bits are to be expected - but everything from indicator units to trim, to horn, to seals - it is all past the design life VW probably gave it. To keep one of these vans you have to have the temperament which accepts that you are in a constant replacement cycle to keep the thing going. Some of it is not expensive, over half of it is relatively easy to buy, but some of it isn't. And it is hassle. So that can all be expected - just like if you were trying to run a Austin Maxi - altho' comparing British Leyland's utter low point and crappiest car is not a valid comparison to any German vehicle of that era. But the point is, a new Brazilian vehicle - the bits might not be as good as the German, but they are new. So it will run for a few years without a constant replacement cycle. As to the rust - well you have an opinion - based on a sample of, er, one vehicle. Any non-galvanised steel needs waterproof protection - as I said, just like your T25, and my T25. And yes, the Brazilians don't need thick paint and underseal - that's why you need to do that in the UK - bottom half respray and high quality underseal. And then, like any vehicle with that kind of steel, touch up any paint damage!
So its about what you want from ownership. The 30 year old van experience - where you will have brake downs and problems now and again, or a new vehicle in a classic form, that is not as good as the Ford Focus (in your analogy), but has newer components that the Maxi, which even with lower standards than the original, will last a few years - the South Americans are not that bad at making things! VW use them to make the VW Fox which is imported into the EU - where from? Brazil!
try reading my post correctly!!! i can send you pictures of 7 or 8 examples of rusty brazilian bays and beetles NOT just one!!!! by the sounds of things you should buy yourself a Mazda Bongo and be happy with that they are cheap and reliable... An old volkswagen is a love and passion which you obviously dont have so in my opinion a t25 or a bay is going to waste in your possession, i have had the passion since i can walk due to my father having a vw garage.. I dont need you patronising me with how to rust proof vehicles i have been restoring classic cars such as MG's, Cortina's, pop's A30's etc since 1985, its nothing new to me... you might want to research the information on brazilian made vw's for the brazilian market and vw's for the european market before you try to lecture people on there quality... Anyone who has had any experience with the vehicles and parts such as bocar, kaefer, brazilian chrome (if you can call it that) will tell you how poor the quality is...
Have fun with your bongo!!! conversation for my part is finished... Im of out to the garage to put the passion into my 82 Aircooled tintop that it deserves...
Ps. You show me a mint brazilian bay in 25 years time
He fought his first battle on the Scottish Highlands in 1536... There can only be one...
Had a look at the Brazillian imports last night (just out of curiosity of course) Gobsmacked, not so much the price but, hey, they are now watercooled!
80HP, 45 mpg and low tax band.... £18,000 - £25000 depending on spec (ouch!).
....hmmm........where can I get one of them lumps from.....
highlander wrote:... An old volkswagen is a love and passion which you obviously dont have so in my opinion a t25 or a bay is going to waste in your possession, ... you might want to research the information on brazilian made vw's for the brazilian market and vw's for the european market before you try to lecture people on there quality...
Ps. You show me a mint brazilian bay in 25 years time
I say.. well said. No comparison.
I too choose to keep a twenty odd year old van roadworthy, because I love it, simple as.
highlander wrote:try reading my post correctly!!! i can send you pictures of 7 or 8 examples of rusty brazilian bays and beetles NOT just one!!!! by the sounds of things you should buy yourself a Mazda Bongo and be happy with that they are cheap and reliable... An old volkswagen is a love and passion which you obviously dont have so in my opinion a t25 or a bay is going to waste in your possession, i have had the passion since i can walk due to my father having a vw garage.. I dont need you patronising me with how to rust proof vehicles i have been restoring classic cars such as MG's, Cortina's, pop's A30's etc since 1985, its nothing new to me... you might want to research the information on brazilian made vw's for the brazilian market and vw's for the european market before you try to lecture people on there quality... Anyone who has had any experience with the vehicles and parts such as bocar, kaefer, brazilian chrome (if you can call it that) will tell you how poor the quality is...
Have fun with your bongo!!! conversation for my part is finished... Im of out to the garage to put the passion into my 82 Aircooled tintop that it deserves...
Ps. You show me a mint brazilian bay in 25 years time
You really are quite a rude objectionable person - I liked this forum until you came on and spoilt it. Have I offended you in another life?
we choose these vehicles because we have a love of the VW thing... there isn't a word to describe it. you don't see such massive following of 20 year old Mercedes/ford/Austin/Bedford etc.. commercial vehicles. some may say they have 'soul', but hey, that's subjective.
you are trying to choose a vehicle and a lot of people have given advice. IMHO you need to work out what you want to use it for and what investment (emotional and financial) you are prepared to spend. if you go the T3/T25 route there is a massive following of great people, but PLEASE EXPECT A LITTLE 'ROUGH' TREATMENT from time to time. Look on the brick yard and vzi, and don't go having a hissy fit because someone has been forthright in their opinion... that's life baby, the bongo forums will treat you kinder..
we choose these vehicles because we have a love of the VW thing... there isn't a word to describe it. you don't see such massive following of 20 year old Mercedes/. ./Austin/Bedford etc.. commercial vehicles. some may say they have 'soul', but hey, that's subjective.
you are trying to choose a vehicle and a lot of people have given advice. IMHO you need to work out what you want to use it for and what investment (emotional and financial) you are prepared to spend. if you go the T3/T25 route there is a massive following of great people, but PLEASE EXPECT A LITTLE 'ROUGH' TREATMENT from time to time. Look on the brick yard and vzi, and don't go having a hissy fit because someone has been forthright in their opinion... that's life baby, the bongo forums will treat you kinder..
Fair enough - thanks for having a more reasonable style than Mr Angry of the Highlands. Will take it in good spirit. I have read some interesting posts on the JK site. Seems that Brazilians make passions run high - those who own them annoyed that you guys don't regard them as real VWs. That's the bit I don't understand - some may hate them with a passion, but there clearly is a market for them, and it's abit insulting to all Danbury customers to regard them as some how mentally deficient persons.
As to Mazda Bongos - good try! Not for me though. They are a perfectly good vehicle - if you happen to want one.
I used to run a quarry stores collection & delivery and had 3 vehicles at my disposal (all of them diesel) :-
!! I think your engine is knackered mate!!! I have a garage full of type 4 engines and spares... you tell me what you need?? i tell you how much 
I have hit a raw nerve! Have you really seen the Brazilian Bays? Sure the metal is not galvanised, so it needs protecting - no different from the original - AND the T25!
