Economy with your engine

Post by **SplendiferousII** » 02 Aug 2006, 10:06

As my van 1.6 n/a recently developed Gearbox trouble I was going to pull the engine and replace it with a AAZ TD unit. I even got as far as buying a reasonably millaged Golf as the donar car - still on the drive. I decided to abandon the idea due to hearing horror stories of the bottom pulley falling off, hydraulic tappet issues with the engine being cocked over, complications over the fuel pump and it impinging into my bed space. Ok some of this is probably fable and other parts are easily overcome - The fact the other half has promised her mother the use of the van for next week also swayed my decision to stick with the 1.6 n/a for now.

But one other major factor in my decision was that I get about 55mpg from my van at the moment and probably more on a run. & my 1.6 engine is a beauty.

With the way fuel prices are going I didn't want to lose this economy. I have heard that you get about 25 - 30 mpg when the AAZ unit is fitted (correct?)

So I would stand to lose about 25 - 30 mpg just to go a little faster - bugger that!

Are the TDI engines a better bet? Or would a 1.9 n/a be a slight improvement on power with a reasonable return on mpg?

Go on post your engines fitted and your mpg returns so I can make a judgement call.

Might even fit the AAZ engine when her mother returns if you say the 25 - 30 mpg is bull.

Post by **Mark S** » 11 Aug 2006, 07:33

I hadn't heard of any of those horror stories or I mightn't have fitted my AAZ either! As for impinging on bedspace - it definitely doesn't provided you modify your engine lid correctly. Even I managed to do that and I'm a complete biff.

Having done loads of driving on the AAZ since converting from the CS, I can say that the 1.9 TD seems to be much more economical. I say this from instinct as I haven't kept detailed figures. I'd guess it does about 40 mpg. I suppose this is because it is not working so hard to perform the same work. The CS used to be driven like a dodgem: 0 - 60 sometime this week. The 1.9 is a proper drive and the noise is also less annoying.

Conversion is a no-brainer.

Post by **Diamond Hell** » 11 Aug 2006, 08:00

The CS used to be driven like a dodgem: 0 - 60 sometime this week. The 1.9 is a proper drive and the noise is also less annoying.

It's an amazing equation= more power = some less MPG but a more enjoyable van to drive.

You could probably avoid the pulley issues by getting the cambelt changed by a VW-Audi specialist who will replace the required bits and torque the set up correctly to avoid these alleged problems.

To be fair I've not (yet) heard of any problems of this nature and I've come across a fair few AAZed vans.

I seem to recall some bloke called Baxter outlining the issue in more details on these hallowed pages some time ago.

Post by **SplendiferousII** » 11 Aug 2006, 08:52

40 mpg I could live with happily. Problem is now I have polished the Donar car and its looking as good as new! Its gone from the fadded pink / white to bright glossy red. Far to good to break just to rob the engine. Damn !!!!! I'll keep an eye out for another donar car and make the engine conversion my winter project.
As for the Fuel pump impinging into my bed space, well my thoughts are that if it does it can only be by the smallest amount, I cannot see any major problems with just lowering the engine an inch or so to overcome this. Anyone else done this?

Post by **Diamond Hell** » 11 Aug 2006, 09:08

I cannot see any major problems with just lowering the engine an inch or so to overcome this.

That's an interesting suggestion, although not an easy one to achieve given how the engine is mounted. You're also going to change a lot of different variables in the vehicle by doing this.

Having seen SmokeyJon's engine cover mod I think probably a little glassfibre work might be preferable.....

Post by **SplendiferousII** » 11 Aug 2006, 10:33

I'd like to see his conversion myself. I guess he has just cut a hole in the engine cover and then finsihed it flush to gain those all important few millimeters?

As to dropping the engine - cant really say I've looked into it fully, but from my time spent under my van last weekend putting the box back in I reconed I could just put spacers and longer bolts between the cross members and the chassis to lower it. The whole lot just bolts up if my memory is correct.

Everything hangs from the engine anyway so cant see that it could effect much there. But it would push the drive shafts into the gearbox a little bit. But being realistic about this. VW designed the suspension for full travel so there must be enough movement in the CV joints to allow full travel.

My van is not used for moto x so I cant see me using the fully travel to often if at all.

What you think?

Post by **Diamond Hell** » 11 Aug 2006, 10:47

I think once you get into looking at the engine mounts you may see that they're slightly more complex than you're thinking, especially when you look at the rearward mounts on the back crossmember - these bolt up to plates on the cross member with captive nuts.

Post by **billy739** » 13 Aug 2006, 19:49

yhe last one i fitted the vacume unit cleared the lid,i had to modify the throttle cable mount and use the old throttle arm from the old pump,less than an hours work.no mods to the van or lid!

Post by **Mark S** » 14 Aug 2006, 20:22

I can answer the question about the engine lid clearance with the AAZ. I found with mine that, although the lid went down OK without modification, the top of the pump was rubbing against the lid and starting to melt the insulation - not ideal. Therefore all you do is cut a hole about 10 x 5 cm around the contact point using a jigsaw/file, remove any insulation from that area and then plate over the top with a piece of ally sheet. The impingement into your bedspace is no more than the thickness of that sheet and, unless you are like the princess out of the Princess and the Pea, you are never going to notice it in a million years. If you're anything like me, you've probably got foam mats, carpets and sound-deadening material under the mattress anyway. Saying that, I could sleep on a clothes line.

I suppose that the dimensions of each bus/engine are slightly different. Now, you could lower the engine ever so slightly by putting some washers/shims between the engine rail mounting plates and where they are fixed to the sub-frame and use slightly longer bolts if necessary. This might allow you to lower the engine by 10 - 20 mm or so and avoid having to cut the lid. I can't see this having a massive effect on the performance of the whole set-up. The sump might eventually start to foul the tinware, though.

On the whole (no pun intended) I've really not found it to be a serious issue at all. The AAZ engine is basically the same block as the CS/JX anyway, although more modern and slightly improved. As long as you get the ancils right there should not be any reliability issues. I was apprehensive when I started my conversion, but I have since driven many tens of thousands of miles on it without issue. Only annoying thing is that the alternator belt goes slack quite quickly and needs to be re-tensioned every 5,000 km or so.

Post by **SplendiferousII** » 15 Aug 2006, 08:20

Thanks for your input there mark. A couple of weeks back I would love to have read your post, as I would have dived in and carried out my engine swap. You wouldn't believe how often I would get up from the settee, go outside and pop the bonnet of the golf and lift the lid on the camper and try to asses if that damn vacume unit would clear the lid or not. Even made myself a cardboard template ! In the end economy issues and the fact that herself offered it out to her mother made my decision for me. Shame the golf cleaned up so well ! On the look out for another soon.

Post by **Mark S** » 16 Aug 2006, 08:07

Well, the idea's not dead yet. Perhaps it's a shame to break up a perfectly serviceable Golf anyway. AAZ engines are not hard to come by. Best place to start is at one of those on-line part-finder sites.

A bigger challenge is getting together all the JXey-type bolt-on bits that you will need in order to modify the AAZ to sit at that ridiculous angle. It's worth buying a knackered JX (1.6 TD) or (even a complete old van!) for that purpose. I'm told that there are also companies now that put together kits for this job. Somebody on this site will know.

Drop in and have a look at mine if you're anywhere near Bristol.

'Far better to live for a day as an AAZ than for a lifetime as a CS'

Post by **Diamond Hell** » 16 Aug 2006, 08:46

Best place to start is at one of those on-line part-finder sites.

Or just hunt down a Seat Toledo turbo diesel (or even a TDI motor, if you can cope with the sparks) - usually a damned sight cheaper than a Golf of any form. All it is is a Golf in a cheap suit, too.

Mark S, you should come up to Filton some time. If SmokeyJon's about (which he often is) then there's an AAZ panel van Syncro and a my Subaru-powered Syncro Caravelle outside my place.

Your quote about the AAZ vs the CS is SO very true - I had to drive London-Bristol in a CS once..... NEVER AGAIN!

Post by **MacWilliam** » 29 Aug 2006, 11:10

You'll find a lot of the answers http://www.club80-90.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 49&start=0 but i guess you've researched this in depth. The 1.9td is better, bigger, and will drink more.

Post by **HarryMann** » 29 Aug 2006, 11:27

The 1.9td is better, bigger, and will drink more.

True, it will, esp. if you use that extra power which is hard to do - NOT.

But AAZ is much stronger unit all round.

Post by **Mark S** » 31 Aug 2006, 16:09

IMHO, I have found the 1.9 TD to be MORE economical than the CS that it replaced. Although its cylinder capacity is larger so it uses more fuel per stroke, it can generate the same power at lower revs and throttle openings compared with the CS. Moreover, it has a turbo and the CS doesn't; the turbo basically squeezes a load more air into the system, leading to a leaner burn and greater efficiency.

It's a subjective thing and affected by many variables, but I seem to be visiting filling stations a lot LESS frequently with my AAZ than I did when I was doing similar journeys driving the glorified sewing machine that was the CS. Without having figures to back it up, I think the AAZ is more economical but even if it isn't, you are not going to suffer noticeably increased fuel bills.

A lot depends on how you drive, too, of course...

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Economy with your engine

Economy with your engine

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Engine Lid Issues