hot engine, cold cab... and vice-versa.

[el camion]

hello syncrommunity,

notes:
• this is my first post, so happy to hear feedback about guidelines observation
• i have searched the archives to find a similar problem but seem to have been unsuccesful
• there will be other separate posts with other separate issues (syncros...)

i am the very happy owner of a 1989 2.1 wbx syncro (my second), that has happily taken me from belgium to the south of france, spain, ibiza, the pyrenees this summer, and firenze, sienna, the alsp, vevey and burgundy this winter.

the reason i'm sharing this context is, it has run in super-hot conditions including some off-road, and super-cold conditions including some "ice-skating", mostly going up & downhill for long periods.
 on the last stretch of our return last week a heat regulation problem has occurred from time to time (not always): as if — but i am not sure that is the source of the problem! — the thermostat was blocked, then unblocked again: the engine temperature rises to over half the indicator (even by -5°C outside) and as it rises, the temperature in the cab drops (to “really cold”). after a while it returns to normal driving temperature, and normal cab temperature, then sometimes even dropping to really cool running temperature (around one quarter, a fifth) with a very warm cab.
 this hardly never happens on a long, even, stretch of motorway. it happens more often after a change in running speed (uphill then downhill or vice-versa, traffic, etc).

i took the old girl from a drive this morning (-5°) and within 10-15 minutes, she was was already over the half mark on the water temp indicator.

any clues?

thanks to all, already and open to any constructive criticism.
happy to join the community,

doug

[Mocki]

Air lock

[Rascal]

Yep air in the system

[Aidan]

in reply to the emails you sent me - your confusion maybe because you are looking at Bentley manual which is original for American market and they had 1.9 with Fuel injection early on, running Digijet ECU and then they had the MV running Digifant.
In Europe and other markets
1.9 Syncros have a carburettor
2.1 Syncros have fuel injection and came in 2 basic varieties (there are other rarer ones), DJ with Digijet, normally have the ECU behind the left rear light cluster, 112hp, originally ran 4 star fuel or equivilent, and the MV with Digifant, 95hp, ran on unleaded fuel from the get go, ECU usually under the rear seat.
DJ have a vacuum advance distributor, MV has no vacuum unit affixed to the distributor, MV originally fitted with catalytic converter in the exhaust.
It's possible to fit the fuel injection system onto a 1.9 engine, only way to tell is code stamped on block, or measuring stroke of piston, this would have been done as a cheapskate fix, cheap 1.9 used engine into a 2.1 bus due to cost and ready availability, in the UK most petrol vans were 1.9 DG or DF code as 2.1 was expensive option back in the day.
The vehicle type code which is on the stamped plate under the inner rail of the left front seat can be decoded to tell you which engine was fitted to vehicle when it left the factory
If the white sticker is still stuck to the body usually knee high on the crossmember under the steering wheel you have a load of information about what the vehicle originally was, white sticker is usually on first page of service book that came with van when new if that is still with the vehicle. White sticker even has information about the original market supplied to. UK vans are mostly 210 EN code, top right corner, VW VAG UK Milton Keynes, imported via Margate
If you are in Belgium then contact Dream and Drive in Amsterdam for more local (Mark is British) help with your van (other specialists are available, Tonnie Voss might be able to point you at best specialist in Belgium but he no longer repairs T3 gearboxes as I understand it, preferring to do Porsche stuff these days)

[el camion]

thanks mocki & rascal for such a speedy answer (not sure yet how to tag answers in posts),

i'll check / bleed the system as soon as the weather permits  .

any idea how that might have built up along the 10.000km since last service (and replacement of front/rear waterlines > circuit flushed & bled)?

[el camion]

thanks aidan,
(really funny, i'm sure i'm not the first to mention this but "aidan" in french, granted written as "aidant", unsurprisingly means helpful)
very helpful indeed!
couple of comments in the same order as your reply:

1 > the bentley manual was indeed a source of confusion;
2 > since i do have a digifant (and it is indeed located under the rear bench) i assumed it is a 2.1 MV (it is indeed fitted with a catalytic converter)
3 > (stroke of genius) checking the plates:

• the stamped metal one reads, from top to bottom:
  02 7 6073   184 253S 67 > no idea, could be type, see hereunder
  X2X2UG   402 640 > one of the X2's could be a colour code (blueish grey), that matches the LH5U paint code 
  KG 066 971 > 1989, Graz, Serial number
  
• the paper white one:
  3801   02-7-6073   184   42
  ident n° [followed by complete chassis number]
  type 253 S67
  engine code DG transmission code AAN > meaning, if i am right a 1.9 litre with carburettor (mine has a digifant )
  paint number LH5U  /interior UG
  options IWV IWW IWX P26 RCB 767
              984 987 998
  

could this mean:
(a) it left the factory with a DG/1.9/carburettor (later to be retrofitted with a digifant) ?
(b) it left the factory with a DG/1.9/carburettor engine that was later fully replaced by a 2.1/xx/digifant ?
(c) none of the above.

4> "local" help: thanks for the various contacts. since i live in liège, köln is the easiest bet (an hour a bit's drive from here vs 3 to 4 hours to amsterdam). ever heard of T3 garage (michael treichel & oli stahl)?

sorry to have opened a can of worms. 

all the best and once again thank you for sharing this precious information.

douglas




 

[maxstu]

thanks aidan,
(really funny, i'm sure i'm not the first to mention this but "aidan" in french, granted written as "aidant", unsurprisingly means helpful)

douglas
 

Whereas Douglas in Scottish Gaelic means dark stream. So look for a coolant leak!

[el camion]

i knew about my name (love the mysterious side, about as mysterious as syncro regulation), but hadn’t connected it « el camion »’s problem .
always one for a good laugh too .

[Aidan]

So yes it was originally a 1.9 with Carb

253 S67

left hand drive Kombi shell = 253 ie van with windows and seatbelts
Multivan = S
1.9 78hp, ie DG engine = 6
Standard transmission M299 = Syncro is the 7

x2 is the colour, twice because same colour top and bottom Dove Grey Metallic =LH5U

UG Interior is light grey / black M402 Luxury version Multivan

AAN transmission is rear difflock 4.86 final drive normal 14" petrol gearbox, will be matched with ACU front diff if non difflock, ADH if difflock

Built during 2nd week of January 1989 on day 7

M codes
797 not known to me or teedrie.nl website, Samba suggests a Deluxe option on splitties, who knows what it means on a T3, possibly some nice touch only fitted to Multivans
984 twin square headlights
987 Sliding middle window opposite sliding door
998 electric mirrors


so at some point it has had an engine swap, engine number is stamped at base of breather tower usually has the code eg MV followed by number, it's most likely the engine and ignition system were transferred complete from a damaged / to be scrapped vehicle or one which was having a different engine, like a Subaru fitted

AidanTalbot aka aidant

when working on cooling system make sure the heater is set to hot so coolant (and air) can flow through the matrix

[Oren Kipnis]

A good workshop in Belgium is Tom Laureyns in Ghent https://garagetomlaureyns.be

[el camion]

hello aidan(t),
thanks a million. un-flippin-believable how much info was available on "el camion" itself, and even more unbelievable is your simutaneous translation! .
i guess i need to check that engine code to close this (second) subject.
i'll close the first subject (the air lock) at the same time, after our snow storm.
i'll be posting a couple of other problems, if, and only if, i can't find them solved elsewhere on the forum.

hello oren,
thanks for the info about tom in gent. i'd read mixed reviews so was a little uncomfortable at the whole idea of going there, but living in liège still makes the t3-garage guys in köln the closest bet.

thanks to all of you up to now.
(off to update my profile, now that i am a club 80-90 member.) woohoo.

[Aidan]

184 delivery destination Audi, Germany SW region, the 42 might be the actual dealership code

[el camion]

184 delivery destination Audi, Germany SW region, the 42 might be the actual dealership code

dear aidan,
thank you so much!
"el camion" was indeed bought (and imported) two years ago from a chap in germany (saarbruck area, reasonably south-west indeed), and he was the second owner.
once again your wealth of knowledge is a little mind-boggling.
will keep everyone posted with the results of my further investigation into the air-lock.
(have spent the better part of these last few days reading more or less every thread on the club's forums related to airlocks and bleeding > should help).

[el camion]

hello again,
back on the subject of the most probable airlock.
i let « el camion » idle just now for a while. no driving, just idling. the temperature rose steadily, past the half mark. it rose further.
two questions, just trying to understand the old beast’s cooling system further :
(1) what triggers the fan? (it didn’t start)
(2) what triggers the blinking red light?
gently progressing towards solving this one « on my own », i.e. with your most welcome help and comments.
all the best,
douglas

[el camion]

so, i looked further on the forum and found a post that treated question 1 previously. wonderful!
(crawling the forum on a phone, slightly cumbersome ).
will check that radiator-fitted temperature sensor by bridging.
back as weather and work allow.