Cruise control instalation and alternative parts.

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Aidan
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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by Aidan »

C22 connects through fuse 6 to B16, I have a self written note that B16 is white yellow wire in my Bentley, probably a short wire with single yellow female spade terminal on it; fuse 6 isn't allocated so it was used for additional stuff, like things that had relays mounted on top of fuse board or elsewhere
odd that it's a 253 part number relay suggests it was specific police/ambulance or camper based stuff, what's the model code of the vehicle (on the plate under nearside seat eg 253 ***) if you have the white sticker in the front of the original service manual or under the dash that will tell us more about what it was when built.
It could have been something weird originally like a diplomatic protection vehicle, and maybe had siren fitted that was speed sensitive ? I know of one such vehicle, that was a Multivan Syncro, WBX6 with unique, very tall, gearing. Are there odd switches or holes in the dash ?

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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by Rascal »

Apologies its not c22.. Its the one in the red box I borrowed the photo as I didn't fancy unplugging my fuse box for a photo... Iv checked the m numbers on the white sticker and don't recall anythingout of the ordinary ( I'll recheck tomorrow) Iv only recently purchased the van and I'm originally a Ford man Mk1 escort and Anglias that I still have.. The Vw world is new to me but always loved the T25/T3 whichever you prefer. I'm doing some repairs upgrades etc.. Replace heater fan and a few other niggkes I'm finding the history of the van interesting 1990. German lhd imported in 2012 has everything for cdl but no actuators terribly installed door speakers.. Has had replacment tailgate as rear wash wipe wiring has been chopped.. Mosaik interior (installed in the wrong place) I'd like to reinstate the CDL which is easily do e with T4 actuators and adaptor cables etc.. I'm just trying to tidy up wiring would love cruise control but not sure what the cost would be due to rarity of parts etc..

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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by syncroandy »

I've the dash bit of the CCS (wiring and module) knocking around here somewhere, but not the actuator, or the stalk (I wish !). The CE2 cruise stalk is pin-compatible with the CE1 stalk, but swapping to CE2 stalks is a fair bit of work. Plus you'd really want the longer early T4 CE2 stalks, which are nearly as rare now as the T3 ones.
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Re: Cruise control relay....?

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Oh so true. I stupidly turned down an alledgedly complete T3 CC system earlier this year. But l couldnt afford to splash that kind of cash then. On eBay for bids above £150.00 including stalk as well. It sold for an undisclosed price in the end. Meaning seller removed it from eBay and sold it privately l guess.
Instead of using OEM parts, perhaps a more imaginative approach may work equally well.
For instance, a few years back l read on The Samba that someone used a Subaru CC stalk (a bit easier with a Subaru engine fitted) mounted separately on the T3 steering column. He cut a slot out of the steering cover on the right side between wiper stalk and dash binnacle. That way you dont disturb functions on original indicator stalk.
Subaru CC stalks are cheap as chips compared to T3/T4 ones.
Does the servo vacuum need to be VW? Or perhaps one from a carb? As long as it works in the 40-65mp area. Adjuster bracket could be easily fabricated too.
Perhaps there is far more to it than l realise?
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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by Aidan »

got an electronic subaru cc cable unit on the shelf here, may have a steering wheel with the control switch and will be breaking a 2000 with complete system on if you want to try using the scooby system

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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by maxstu »

Aidan wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 08:52 got an electronic subaru cc cable unit on the shelf here, may have a steering wheel with the control switch and will be breaking a 2000 with complete system on if you want to try using the scooby system

Option goes to OP Rascal first as l gatecrashed his party. Question to Rascal. Would you prefer me to start my own thread about CC? Yet staying here might be beneficial to you too. Your choice. :ok

Because this is where l need more info.
Three questions... Apparently Subaru crossover between vacuum operated and electronic CC around 1998/2000.

Firstly, do l search for vacuum operated equipment only? Which would make sense as its in diagram shown earlier.
And do l need an early CC ON switch to instigate such as this...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUBARU-FORES ... 4172109710

Lastly is the electronic cable unit version adaptable to vacuum operated CC.

Regards
Stuart
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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by syncroandy »

I've got a complete NOS in the box, Subaru Forester retro-fit cruise kit here. I don't see why it couldn't be used with a WBX just as well with a minor mod to link it to the throttle. I 'just' need to make a harness for it though before offering it for sale. One of those 'roundtuit' jobs.. Both my vans have their native cruise systems (TDI & Subaru) which gets used often.
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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by Rascal »

keep the thread in here. no point starting a fresh one.   id like to eventualy fit cruise control,  but ill probably wont do until i replace the JX lump (currently running fine, problem is i like  that the JX is mechanical not a fan of electronics just for the sake of it,my daily is a L200 warrior that i run on veg oil  has so much electronics fly by wire throttle etc ( have a second kit fot the T25) just need to work out where im going to fit the second fuel tank. feel free to have dibs on the scooby stuff  as you have more parts already  where as i just have this Rogue relay thats connected to the VSS.. 
so my  body type is a 255 which i belive to be a LHD caravelle  as for the M numbers 186 208 254 318 571 nothing out the ordinaryM-CODEDescriptionConcerned modelsFrom chassis numberTo chassis number186Lap belts in passenger compartment247-256
  24A0 300 0001862 three points belts with retractor in the passenger compartmen253-256
 24-B-000 001 208Trailer towing245-256
   254Curtains in cabin (with snap closure)253-256
   318Changed muffler for Syncro TD   571Rear fog light245-256

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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by maxstu »

syncroandy wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 17:32 II've got a complete NOS in the box, Subaru Forester retro-fit cruise kit here. I don't see why it couldn't be used with a WBX just as well with a minor mod to link it to the throttle. I 'just' need to make a harness for it though before offering it for sale. One of those 'roundtuit' jobs.. Both my vans have their native cruise systems (TDI & Subaru) which gets used often.
Image


Sounds interesting. Is it vacuum fed or electronic? Ive got the OEM vacuum pump and control box already.

If that VSS is for sale, then yes please. lm nearly there with OEM equipment except for stalk and vacuum servo with adjuster rod. I could find alternatives for the rest. Not sure about a relay though.

Found this....is it correct. And are there UK alternatives?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/For-1985-199 ... ect=mobile
 
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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by syncroandy »

I'm not aware of the vacuum-operated Subaru cruise you are referring to. I'm only familiar with systems fitted from the late '90's, which are in two forms, both with electric connections to the actuator. One style (pictured above) uses a round actuator (possibly this contains a diaphragm), the other style uses a 'black box' (possibly this has a geared stepper motor). Otherwise the control elements in the system and wiring is essentially the same.

The retro-fit kit I have, does not include the VSS, which is a standard part of the gearbox, used for the speedo, so its present on all cars irrespective of whether cruise is installed.

The brown relay pictured in the Ebay listing is not part of any VW cruise-control system I'm aware of. Possibly the listing is in error, or a scam.

PS. Having written all that, I've just realised its not clear which OEM you are referring to, Subaru, or VW ? I would not attempt to mix and match cruise-control components from different OEMs, on grounds of safety. However I think it possible the Subaru system could be used as a complete kit, to operate a cable-operated throttle engine such as a WBX.
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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by maxstu »

Aidan wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 08:52 got an electronic subaru cc cable unit on the shelf here, may have a steering wheel with the control switch and will be breaking a 2000 with complete system on if you want to try using the scooby system

Okay and thanks for the offer, Aidan,
I need to get more information as lm well out of my depth here! A bit of a numpty regarding this type of (all in fact) electrics.
Im very much a plug and play person.
I can mostly understand the CC diagram posted by Rascal. And that inspires me to fit VW parts wherever possible.
So, if l can get hold of a VSS to slot into back of speedo, then the search is on for a vacuum servo, and lm nearly there.
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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by maxstu »

syncroandy wrote: 05 Dec 2020, 08:44 I'm not aware of the vacuum-operated Subaru cruise you are referring to. I'm only familiar with systems fitted from the late '90's, which are in two forms, both with electric connections to the actuator. One style (pictured above) uses a round actuator (possibly this contains a diaphragm), the other style uses a 'black box' (possibly this has a geared stepper motor). Otherwise the control elements in the system and wiring is essentially the same.

The retro-fit kit I have, does not include the VSS, which is a standard part of the gearbox, used for the speedo, so its present on all cars irrespective of whether cruise is installed.

The brown relay pictured in the Ebay listing is not part of any VW cruise-control system I'm aware of. Possibly the listing is in error, or a scam.

It is the only time lve seen mention of a relay. Plus there is nothing indicated in CC diagram

PS. Having written all that, I've just realised its not clear which OEM you are referring to, Subaru, or VW ? I would not attempt to mix and match cruise-control components from different OEMs, on grounds of safety. However I think it possible the Subaru system could be used as a complete kit, to operate a cable-operated throttle engine such as a WBX.

VW wherever possible.
However l could play around with a Sabaru CC ON/OFF switch and a stalk sited in area l previously mentioned. Really not sure where lm going with this. All l know is l have the CC unit and vacuum pipe with lots of piping and having cruise control would really matching Auto 2.1 with factory PAS and ABS
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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by maxstu »

Sorry about font colour. :oops:
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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by Forden341 »

I looked into retro fitting cruise control on my AGG powered T25 Gipsy and realised that the Hella system was also fitted on the classic Range Rovers. The bellows, vacuum pump and ecu all look identical and because most had cruise fitted should be easier to find.

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Re: Cruise control relay....?

Post by maxstu »

Thanks for the info Forden :ok

So far l have sourced a VSS thanks to a club member. Now have Jaguar vacuum operated actuator on the way. Not certain whether it will work, but very cheap so not too worried.

Getting there.
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