Battery/electrical stuff

[skdub]

Hi there, I have a t25 petrol westie california ... Been looking on forums for an answer with regard to batteries ..

I have been running with 2 leisure type batteries from Tayna for the past couple of years ... They are meant to be 100ah-questionable...

They never seem to hold charge that well ... Was thinking of changing the starter battery in the first instance

Is it better to go for a specific starter battery such as a Varta E38 (fits in tray,175mm high) or go for another leisure style..

I believe that the drain on the battery from lighting,alarm,tracker,radio etc draws from the starter...

I also believe that the was the way it came out the factory with regard to set up for lighting

The batteries i have at present are matched but again does that make any difference if theyre not..

Also any suggestions on changes re the electrical system with regard to drainand from which battery

Am hopefully going down the solar route with a flexi panel minimum 100w which should then take care of drains as stated above.

Any advice appreciated

[Mocki]

First job would be to re route the interior lights , tracker and radio to the leisure battery
( why westfailure and auto sleepers don't is beyond me)
When you do go for the solar option, make sure you get a dual battery controller so it keeps the main battery topped up as well.... ( I have mine set so the leisure battery gets 90% and the main battery 10% of the charge

[California Dreamin]

Hi there, I have a t25 petrol westie california ... Been looking on forums for an answer with regard to batteries ..

I have been running with 2 leisure type batteries from Tayna for the past couple of years ... They are meant to be 100ah-questionable...

They never seem to hold charge that well ... Was thinking of changing the starter battery in the first instance

Is it better to go for a specific starter battery such as a Varta E38 (fits in tray,175mm high) or go for another leisure style..

I believe that the drain on the battery from lighting,alarm,tracker,radio etc draws from the starter...

I also believe that the was the way it came out the factory with regard to set up for lighting

The batteries i have at present are matched but again does that make any difference if theyre not..

Also any suggestions on changes re the electrical system with regard to drainand from which battery

Am hopefully going down the solar route with a flexi panel minimum 100w which should then take care of drains as stated above.

Any advice appreciated

Well the 100ah 'questionable' title should be turned to: 100ah definitely not! if measured the same way as other batteries (this has been covered in another thread) but from memory its actually a 85 or 90ah (been a few months since I wrote it so can't remember which, apart from they aren't 100.

I guess my advice would be just put the highest capacity in there you can (UK type 110 does fit but they are ridiculously tight) the best compromise is a UK Type 100 (just be sure it is a Type 100 and not a battery referred to as a 100/096 because the 096 part normally means the battery is 190mm tall (you need a Type 100 which has a height of 175mm) These are normally around 70 - 74ah depending on brand. If you are undecided go for the one with the highest CCA (cold cranking amps) very useful when you actually need the power.

Yes: if your wiring is standard then your radio/interior lights will be running from the starter battery. This is considered a bit of a mistake and there is a small mod you can carry out that re-routes these ancillaries to the leisure battery (pretty sure the modification is on the WIKI page)

Solar is definitely the way to go, use a dual outlet solar controller set to charge the leisure battery first with reserve then being directed to the starter battery.
Personally I believe that at some point the weak split charge relay should also be swapped for something like a durite 70/20 unit: like
http://www.durite.co.uk/ItemDetails/Ite ... atid=55872" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Martin

[Mr Bean]

I have never never been happy with the performance of my leisure battery although I admit to having an alarm and a radio more or less permanently draining it. i have got to the point of having a 20V range DC meter which I can switch in to read the charge voltage for a confidence check. I now remove the fuse from my radio between trips and go on mains overnight before a trip so as to be sure. But then again I can go up to six weeks without running the van so maybe I expect too much. The 30A fuse sometimes blows when I start up after a long stand (weeks not days) but maybe a fuse in the charge line is looking for trouble with a 90A alternator.
Not too worried though as We wouldn't consider going wild camping in the winter and we get hook up if it is available even through the summer as her indoors uses the polar night lighting up schedule for the electric blanket and I like using the microwave for cooking to save time and mess. A decent solar panel would be OK I guess but I think there needs to be a quantum leap in electricity storage before I get hooked on it - hooked - get the pun
Cheers
CS
PS just got a mega powerful mains operated Vax upright for £89. We can't get on with wimpy chargeable. Saved about £150 but herself blew it on another freezer to hide and forget food in so that didn't go quite as I had hoped.

[ethelred the ready]

Funny reading this, I have my solar panel charging starter battery first, then leisure battery second. Both batteries always kept topped up and charged, and the leisure battery gives about 4 days of lighting and charging (actually it's a big old starter battery I had around!)

[Mocki]

Funny reading this, I have my solar panel charging starter battery first, then leisure battery second. Both batteries always kept topped up and charged, and the leisure battery gives about 4 days of lighting and charging (actually it's a big old starter battery I had around!)

i dont have the option of deciding when which battery gets what charge from the solar, just what amount goes to each.... the main battery really does not need any charge when camping because once the engine is switched off nothing is taken from it at all, everything switches to the leisure battery via a relay once the alternator trigger goes off with the engine .....

[ghost123uk]

I have been running with 2 leisure type batteries from Tayna for the past couple of years ...They never seem to hold charge that well ... Was thinking of changing the starter battery in the first instance

There are very few models of Leisure batteries that will not get damaged by being used to start an engine. They are not designed to supply such high currents. Some say on their label that they are "dual purpose" but from the research I have done, this means they compromise on both functions

The batteries I have at present are matched, but again does that make any difference if they’re not..

No it does not matter at all, as long as they are both in good nick, if one is in good nick and one is shot, the shot one will drag down the good one.

[ghost123uk]

The 30A fuse sometimes blows when I start up after a long stand (weeks not days) but maybe a fuse in the charge line is looking for trouble with a 90A alternator.

It's not the alternator that blows the fuse, it's the short burst of current from the main battery into the (depleted) leisure battery that does it.

It's worth remembering that alternators do not "push" out current to batteries (or any thing else) the batteries (or any thing else) "sucks" the current from the alternator. So, once the initial rush of current from your starter battery has topped up your leisure, so that the voltage of both batteries (remember, they are is parallel) is say 12.6 volts (hypothetically as with the engine off they are no longer in parallel, but I hope you get the picture) then the alternator will only get a relatively few amps "sucked" from it. I have tested this myself by the way.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Slight aside = It is for this reason I use my "poor man's" Sterling charger system. This is a simple 300W inverter (useful for other things too of course) which is fed by the output wire from the split charge relay (so it comes on when the engine is running). The inverter then feeds one of these new type "Smart" battery chargers (12A in my case). This means my two batteries are never actually connected together and the leisure battery gets the full advantage of "smart" charging (at 14.5Volts during the first phase of charging). So, faster charging, better care of battery and the starter battery is left on it's own to just start the engine, as nature intended

I also use a low voltage cut off, so that I cannot damage my leisure battery by over discharging it. I have it set to sound a buzzer actually, rather than cut it off. It's set to sound at 11.8 Volts at present. This may seem low, but within a few seconds of any load being removed, the battery voltage rises back up about .5 of a Volt, so I use that as the measuring point.

[skdub]

Thx guys for all your input ,,,,, with the westie set up is it easy to change the wiring over from the main starter to the leisure with regard to radio,lighting & tracker drain

[California Dreamin]

Pretty easy, from memory its locating one inline connection at the fuse box, pulling it apart and then adding your own wire/connector all the way back to the positive terminal on the leisure battery.

Martin

[skdub]

Thx Martin and all others that helped ...... appreciate it

Steve

[California Dreamin]

I had a quick look for the mod guide but couldn't find it...I've got a feeling that it might have been posted on our sister site 'Brick Yard' ... in fact I think scruffdaddy himself pencilled a 'how too' with pics....Someone on here will post the link


Martin

[Smosh]

Slight aside = It is for this reason I use my "poor man's" Sterling charger system. This is a simple 300W inverter (useful for other things too of course) which is fed by the output wire from the split charge relay (so it comes on when the engine is running). The inverter then feeds one of these new type "Smart" battery chargers (12A in my case). This means my two batteries are never actually connected together and the leisure battery gets the full advantage of "smart" charging (at 14.5Volts during the first phase of charging). So, faster charging, better care of battery and the starter battery is left on it's own to just start the engine, as nature intended .

Something like this?

[ghost123uk]

Yes, that is the way I use it, except I don't have mains hook up, so that bit on your (very nice) diagram is not present on my set-up.

I think if one did have mains hook up, one would need to be very careful re wiring the smart charger's input to it, to make sure one was not "back feeding" the inverter with hook up mains. I imagine some sort of mains operated relay could be wired in, but care would be needed. If I did have mains hook up, I would settle for manually removing the 13A mains plug from the inverter, and plugging it into a socket fed from the hook up.

Some of the above is obvious I know, but is there to protect the bodgers

[Smosh]

That's a fair point about back feeding that I hadn't considered. Maybe a switch so you manually select to charge the leisure from the mains or the 240v instead of a plug. I that way the charger can be buried at the back of a cupboard.