Westfalia Battery Charging

[California Dreamin]

The other issue is that most modern batteries are sealed and so not refillable. Manufactures taking advantage of the 'lower' evaporation rates from these newer battery chemistry's......Note* 'LOWER' because they still use water, just not as much, so these cheeky marketing chappies have decided that 'we' the customer, no longer need the facility to 'top up' the cells, just a 'sales gimmick' if you ask me and one that leads to many of these batteries boiling dry, well before they have actually worn out.

Martin

[Bilson]

You will probably be able to hear if the batteries are boiling just by listening to them.

You'll definitely smell them...

I swapped my BBB for a CTek smart charger - very straightforward, and frees up a big chunk of space under there, especially when you remember that the BBB needs plenty of airflow to stop it overheating, so you can't just stuff that end of the underbed.

Can it be fitted without too much tinkering with the existing wiring? It sounds like I should perhaps take out the existing charger asap, get one ordered tomorrow morning to be delivered where I'll be staying or pick one up on the way if possible and fit it down there. Had a quick look at them, which would you recommend as being most suitable, would I need the 7amp?

[CJH]

The other issue is that most modern batteries are sealed and so not refillable. Manufactures taking advantage of the 'lower' evaporation rates from these newer battery chemistry's......Note* 'LOWER' because they still use water, just not as much, so these cheeky marketing chappies have decided that 'we' the customer, no longer need the facility to 'top up' the cells, just a 'sales gimmick' if you ask me and one that leads to many of these batteries boiling dry, well before they have actually worn out.

Martin

I heard the same. A so-called 'maintenance free' battery just has a bit more water in it to start with. Next time I'm in the market for a battery I'll be looking for one that I can top up.

[Bilson]

You will probably be able to hear if the batteries are boiling just by listening to them.

Should add that it's very rare a "normal" charger will allow you to charge both batteries. Even if you put an A-B switch in the cable. The three-way connector by the BBB doesn't have a straight connection to the +ve on the starter. It does to the leisure (plus an earth), but the third isn't that easy. If you plug it to a smart charger, the charger won't see the starter battery, so won't chuck +12v. I suspect if you had a charger that had a "Look, just chuck +12v anyway" flat-battery mode, it might kick the split relay into life and cause you to start charging, but I've not tried that. Once you move the radio/clock/interior lights to the leisure anyway (quick and easy, at least on a late fusebox van, see the wiki), then you don't need to charge the starter battery, since you aren't using it any differently to just your normal car's battery sat outside unused whilst you sit in your house, IYSWIM.

Everything's off the leisure already bar the cigarette lighter, so the started should be ok, so it's just a matter of keeping the leisure topped up really and not overcharging anything.

[AdrianC]

Can it be fitted without too much tinkering with the existing wiring?

None at all, assuming you're happy to sacrifice the cabling out of the original BBB (mine was heading bin-wards, so...). Just cut the plugs off the BBB, the mains plug and the 12v connectors off the new charger - then connect the BBB's original plugs to the new charger, and plug 'em into the van. Done.

Had a quick look at them, which would you recommend as being most suitable, would I need the 7amp?

How much are you going to be pulling from the battery at any given time and for how long...? Remember, think of a battery as a water tank. The battery's Ah (Amps x hours...) rating is how big the tank is. The Amp rating of the charger is how fast it'll refill it. Only you know how fast you'll be emptying it. It's not quite as straightforward as the maths, but it's close. Also remember, batteries don't like being flattened.

If the van's on mains 24x7, and you've just got an interior light on, then you'll recharge the battery easily with a smaller charger (I went for the 5A) than if you're expecting it to recharge in a few hours after hammering it all evening with a 12v telly & DVD and all lights blazing.

In your situation, I'd definitely go with a smart charger.

[CJH]

Had a quick look at them, which would you recommend as being most suitable, would I need the 7amp?

A rule of thumb that I heard somewhere (probably on here) is that a charger rated at 10% of the battery capacity should be fine. So if you've got a 70AH battery go for the 7A charger. And I also remember hearing that you'll get about half the rated amp-hours before the battery should be recharged (at which point it'll be down to about ?12V? - somebody else please jump in and correct me), so you'll need to be putting 35AH back into that 70AH battery. With a 7A charger that's going to take at least 5 hours, and probably more as it won't be supplying 7A continuously.

[CJH]

Here's the post I was thinking of

[Bilson]

None at all, assuming you're happy to sacrifice the cabling out of the original BBB (mine was heading bin-wards, so...). Just cut the plugs off the BBB, the mains plug and the 12v connectors off the new charger - then connect the BBB's original plugs to the new charger, and plug 'em into the van. Done.

Without sounding too daft, as long as I connect it to the right existing wires, I should be good.

If the van's on mains 24x7, and you've just got an interior light on, then you'll recharge the battery easily with a smaller charger (I went for the 5A) than if you're expecting it to recharge in a few hours after hammering it all evening with a 12v telly & DVD and all lights blazing.

In your situation, I'd definitely go with a smart charger.

I think you're right, I've got the interior light and a pair of hi fi speakers running off the headunit, not going to be using them too much, but should perhaps consider the future when I might use more, so perhaps I should just go for the 7 amp if it's not blatant overkill. I'd rather spend less, but prefer being safe than sorry in the long run.

[Bilson]

A rule of thumb that I heard somewhere (probably on here) is that a charger rated at 10% of the battery capacity should be fine. So if you've got a 70AH battery go for the 7A charger. And I also remember hearing that you'll get about half the rated amp-hours before the battery should be recharged (at which point it'll be down to about ?12V? - somebody else please jump in and correct me), so you'll need to be putting 35AH back into that 70AH battery. With a 7A charger that's going to take at least 5 hours, and probably more as it won't be supplying 7A continuously.

Thanks for that and the link, I think I'm going to plump for the 7A as I'lll probably have to pick it up at Halfords on the way it's only £20 more than their price for the 5A although that would be cheaper elsewhere.

[Bilson]

Just took the BBB out, I just need to work out which wires to connect into the correspond blocks.



I've got a red/yellow a red/black and a black cable in the white block, and a blue and a brown wire in the brown block (although that's clear above).

I'd be very greateful on any help on how to go about identifying which cables are which? I assume the black might be earth, but that's where my assumptions end.

[pirate-pete]

Red/yellow to the leisure battery
Red/black to the relay under the driver seat (connecting onwards to the main battery indirectly as Adrian says)

Above taken from looking at the Joker wiring diagram that is available out on the web - one such place here...
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~johngau ... nglish.pdf

[Bilson]

Red/yellow to the leisure battery
Red/black to the relay under the driver seat (connecting onwards to the main battery indirectly as Adrian says)

Above taken from looking at the Joker wiring diagram that is available out on the web - one such place here...
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~johngau ... nglish.pdf

Thanks for that, just been trying to work out what I'm looking at but don't really have a clue,

[Bilson]

Aaah, thanks to google translate I think I've got somewhere, so the blue and black's to the hookup (should I just assume brown will be earth?), then connect the charger to the red and yellow, and the earth to the black.

[pirate-pete]

Aaah, thanks to google translate I think I've got somewhere, so the blue and black's to the hookup (should I just assume brown will be earth?), then connect the charger to the red and yellow, and the earth to the black.

Blue and brown (not black) I think you meant to hookup yes

And from other plug red/yellow to charger positive and black to the charger negative.

That should charge your leisure battery but not your starter just as you said you wanted.

E D I T - am getting tired so missed your bit about assuming brown is earth. No - not with the mains wiring! You can see the earth cut off in the sheath just behind that brown connector. If you do need earth for your charger connect it to that - will be usual green/yellow just like standard household electrics.

[Bilson]

Blue and brown (not black) I think you meant to hookup yes

yeah, true that's what I should've said.

And from other plug red/yellow to charger positive and black to the charger negative.

That should charge your leisure battery but not your starter just as you said you wanted.

E D I T - am getting tired so missed your bit about assuming brown is earth. No - not with the mains wiring! You can see the earth cut off in the sheath just behind that brown connector. If you do need earth for your charger connect it to that - will be usual green/yellow just like standard household electrics.

ah ok, thanks for your help, is there a simple way of knowing which of the wires blue or brown will be positve and negative?