Hybrid clutch issues

[joe75]

Hope these above tips help you resolve your clutch issue and don't beat yourself up trying to get everything perfect as that is some times just not possible,,,,,,,,,,,

Great ideas. I am kind of known for wanting it all perfect For now I would be happy if it would just be a reliable daily driver . At the moment I am waiting on parts. Some have arrived but are stuck at NZ customs while I argue about the import costs Part of the fun of moving to NZ and bringing the Syncro with us - Now who's idea was that

[jebiga41]

some more clutches that came out of daves two vans an original vw worn out clutch out of a petrol van

A still good or so we thought LUK one out of a hybrid set up

note the wear marks on the collar and also a broken spring at the top plus all springs had wear marks on them which you can just about see in the pic although not much wear on the actual friction plate

[t3tdi]

Hello all,

as I've read that it's also common practise here to combine 1Z flywheel with 2,1 wbx friction plate: i was using this setup with my 1Z engine - i did work well for roughly 50tkm, but now my gearbox is noisy again...so i've read some documents and now think it's like this:

The torque springs in 2,1 wbx friction plate are simply to weak for tdi's torque - they seem to be completely compressed / on block at less then 200Nm. As the engine is doing more (much more for very short peaks) these strokes are not absorbed by the springs but completely transferred to the gearbox which deteriorates a lot then.

So for now i plan to use a new flywheel from late passat / sharan with peak torque absorber (made of two pieces, i don't know the english term for this). The friction plate for this flywheel does not have torque springs, but the specification of the whole flyweel reads it's much more smooth for the gearbox...

What do you guys think about this?

Best,
Holger

[HarryMann]

What you speak of: These are known generically here as DMFs (Dual Mass Flywheels), sometimes dual mass clutch.

[lloydy]

Looks like the best options are a 1z (G60) flywheel and tdi clutch and input shaft. Or dual mass as above. A leat that gets rid of ths problem

[v-lux]

I considered a dual mass set up a while back, but read a lot of bad things about them on Tdi forums. Seemed like most of them were swapping back to standard fly wheel set ups.

[t3tdi]

Hello v-lux,

thanks for this info - can you pls add some reasons why dms is bad / why people decided to go back to normal flywheel?

Best,
Holger

[lloydy]

My understanding of dual mass is that it is good, but only if you are keeping within the specs for torque? Which is why people change them out when modding the engine. Also they are bloody expensive and cost a lot to replace.
I might look into it more at clutch change time. At the moment I have a 1Z flywheel lightened and clearanced for the JX starter. I have on the shelf a G60 flywheel which I could mate up with a VR6 clutch, or go down the dual mass route.

[HarryMann]

They are designed to act somewhat like crank torsional vibration dampers - dual-mass pulleys that have been around since the 60's.

The idea is to spread the sharp-edged torque waves coming through from modern diesel engines to the transmission, smoothing it enough to increase the fatigue life of transmission components further down the chain by reducing the peak stresses.

They are more complicated and therefore fragile than a simple flywheel and clutch - that is the downside, and being more prone to abuse (operation outside the game-plan?)

[silentbay]

I have a 1Z flywheel lightened and clearanced for the JX starter.

Lloyd, what do u mean with that? Does not the 1Z flywheel fit perfectly by itself?

[lloydy]

The flywheel fits fine, but if you are going to use the jx starter a part of the flywheel needs removing so the jx starter can engage the teeth. What you can do (and what i am doing with the new engine) is use the tdi starter with a adapter that bolts to the bellhousing. Nothing then needs to be touched on the flywheel

[syncropaddy]

I considered a dual mass set up a while back, but read a lot of bad things about them on Tdi forums. Seemed like most of them were swapping back to standard fly wheel set ups.

Dual Mass Flywheels look simple enough but there is quite a bit of science behind them as they, as Clive says, act somewhat like a crank torsional vibration damper and are tuned to a range of engines. They wear out and can last anything from 75,000 miles to 150,000 and beyond depending on use. They are an expensive item to replace if you buy from VW and up to half the price if bought in the aftermarket. This is where the 'bad things' come from as these aftermarket items are not up to the job. The move to solid flywheels is a very short term move and there are loads of people who will tell you that this is the way to go but ask them again in 50,000 miles! By removing the dampening effect, the internal dynamics of the engine change and the forces the DMF was designed to remove are back and causing the damage that VW had designed out.
The diesel engine has really moved along in leaps and bounds since the venerable VW 1.6 TD was in its heyday and while it was good enough back in the day, it isnt good enough now. When considering an engine swap, I think making the engine fit the gearbox etc, is where things go wrong. Why not make the gearbox fit the engine and make the support bars fit the engine's mounts? That way you are utilizing as much of the thinking that went into the engine and its ancillaries as possible and lessening the compromises that you get by doing it the other way around.