Pierburg 2e3 problems

[8ball]

Hello there,

I've been lurking for a few weeks but only just got around to saying hi. I've just recently bought my first van, a very low mileage (gen. 25k) T25 caravelle with a 1.9 DG, and have been enjoying getting to know it over the last few weeks. It had been unused for a number of years, then recommisioned by a mechanic local to me, so has had all brake, fuel lines replaced, and vacuum hoses etc, basically anything perishable, and came with years MOT. Nevertheless have been experiencing a few teething problems. The first night of ownership I drove round for a bit and all was okay until I filled up, brimmed the tank, and watched in a mixture of panic and disappointment as several litres spilled out onto the forecourt. Tank out, breather pipe grommets replaced and all good once again. Replaced coolant pipes with stainless from Brickwerks at the same time for peace of mind as they were looking a little bit weepy. Have driven a few hundred miles since then and the van has developed a fuelling problem, from what I've read seems to be fairly common Pierburg fault, stalling when approaching a junction, overfuelling, and very rough idle. I have changed the inline fuel filter as it was full of crap and sprayed the carb in situ with carb cleaner, but no change. Tried removing witch's hat filter with a self tapper but couldn't seem to fish it out, so due to lack of time and inexperience, took it to a local independent specialist. Vacuum problems eliminated, he today stripped and cleaned the carb and blew through with air line, but informed me it's knacked due to residue from old fuel gunking something up. Have any of you had any luck with ultrasonic carb cleaning? I've got access to a small ultrasonic bath (about 2.5 litres) so thought maybe a good idea to take up to him to give all the carb bits a thorough clean and give it one more shot before resorting to rebuild/replacement. I'm not keen to replace with a Weber. Any thoughts or advice welcome.

Thanks,

Chris

[8ball]

sorry... this should have gone in technical!

[Mocki]

I will move it to technical for you....

Don't bother with a webber, they don't suit these vans , just do a search for webber in the tech to see how many problems they suffer!!
I would say get a rebuild kit if you can or a secondhand carb ?

[itchyfeet]

^^^ whs get a rebuild kit from Brickwerks before changing the carb. Second hand carbs will probably be no better as they are all old.

Do some reasearch it's not that hard to split the carb, clean it and reassemble if you have basic skills and are methodical. I have some pics that would help, if you need some PM me your email. Camera is your friend, photograph everything so you know what went where when reassembling.

[Bulldog1]

I had similar problems until I took it to steve at gas sure in Chester. He refurbed the carb and it's been great since.
It turns out that the wrong seal may have been used and the petrol perished it, causing tiny bits of rubber to periodically block the jets.

[HarryMann]

Yes, can't believe fuel deposits can really be a permanent and insoluble (sic) problem !

There are plenty of threads on the Pierburg on here and in the Tech Archive.
When removing brass jets, just try to use a good quality, perfect fitting screwdriver. Lots of light, good close vision and inspection of every part, be meticulous.
Gasure used to offer re-bushing the spindles, if worn, something not usually possible in a home workshop.

Unless the guy giving you that advice has years of experience servicing carbs, I'd take that advice about unrepairable with a pinch of salt...

[steve8090]

Gasure used to offer re-bushing the spindles, if worn, something not usually possible in a home workshop.

Unless the guy giving you that advice has years of experience servicing carbs, I'd take that advice about unrepairable with a pinch of salt...

Clive, there is no used about it, we still do, however the only stipulation now is no postal service, it's a drive in refurb and setup.

See here http://www.gasure.co.uk/carb.htm

[8ball]

Thanks for the replies everyone. He didn't say it was unrepairable as such, but despite his best efforts, and he has over 30 years in the trade and dealer training, couldn't get it to run right. I think I'll try cleaning everything in the ultrasonic bath and a rebuilt kit and see how we go from there. Should that not sort it out, has anyone got a good 2e3 for sale or could point me in the right direction? I tried ringing about ten places yesterday but only two had one for sale, both were the later version with an additional aperture in the choke flap, which from what I've heard from Edwyn at Bromyard VW would in theory be useable, but with reduced performance. Are any of you running a later carb on an early DG engine, and if so any opinions? I'm tempted just to send the carb to Bromyard for peace of mind, but he currently has a 3 week+ turnaround time, and I'd really like the van to be useable in time for the easter weekend. Unfortunately Chester's a bit of a stretch Steve, otherwise I'd pay you a visit. Any recommendations for anywhere closer to Bristol?

Cheers all

Chris

[HarryMann]

So its still cutting out on slowing to a stop, idling rough etc. ?
Tried MEK, denatured alcohol, or Berkbile 2+ 2 carb cleaner, even oven cleaner. Be careful though, don't soak it, use it locally..
If you can see a fuel or airway obstruction, a wire from a brass wire brush is often about the right size.
Dead sure it is over-fuelling at idle? If not are you sure there are no manifold or gasket leaks, presumably why Gasure want the whole vehicle... they can be at engine end as well as carb end of manifold. Float needle-valve def. OK?

[kevtherev]

There are many ways for unwanted air to leak into the pierburg. Air that will stall an engine after the choke comes off
Unless they are eradicated cleaning is futile.

second veturi butterfly
choke pull down
distributor advance

all these attached devices use a diaphragm to operate, if the diaphragm is split then air will leak in.

the brake servo hose (braided type) is another known culprit for air

[itchyfeet]

pics are on Photobucket now might get some more up later...


http://s1145.photobucket.com/user/paul_ ... ierburg2E3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I can't see how a late or early carb makes any difference.


You said overfueling was the problem so I guess your mechanic told you that.

Ask your mechanic if he replaced any of the gaskets, float needle valve, accelerator pump membrane part load enrichment valve etc, if he didn't then they really need doing, those parts are in a rebuild kit. Your carb was working by your account for 100 miles so it's likely to be something like a gasket fail or float needle valve IMO

[ghost123uk]

I had one on a Scirocco (Still a Pierburg of very similar design) that had me going for ages.

Eventually I had it off the car for about the 5th time when I discovered, when blowing down one of the drillings in the body, that I could blow one way but not suck. There are no one way valves in there. In the end I drilled a hole in the body, at end of the drilling. What I found was a tiny bit of rubber (or similar) that was acting as a one way valve. It had got into that drilling somehow but no amount of cleaning or airline blowing had managed to get it out again !! I removed the obstruction, and loctite'd a close fitting short bolt into the hole

If I had not come across it by blowing AND sucking, I might have given up and paid loads of dosh for another carb

[HarryMann]

I can't see how a late or early carb makes any difference.

No, but nevertheless those two versions of the 1.9 DF/DG, early/late respectively had quite different breathing due to valve port size upgrades IIRC.
So if no other differences, the jetting might be somewhat different, of course for same base carb, the jets could be changed over, but it sounds like the base carb is different too..

[itchyfeet]

didnt' know Pierburg was ever fitted to the 1.9 DF, I thought is was only the 1.9 DG and the DF had a solex carb.

There is an early DG Pierburg 2e3 fitted to 1.9DG's which does not have the hole in the choke flap, I think thats what he means.

[8ball]

The guy I bought the van from replaced the accelerator pump whilst recommissioning the van, and brake servo hose has been renewed. In addition I have replaced the six small vacuum hoses. The mechanic I've taken it to who has tried to clean and set it up says that he eliminated a vacuum leak as the cause of the problem.

Here is a (very bad) picture of the choke flap:



and a video of the engine idling...

You said overfueling was the problem so I guess your mechanic told you that.

Ask your mechanic if he replaced any of the gaskets, float needle valve, accelerator pump membrane part load enrichment valve etc, if he didn't then they really need doing, those parts are in a rebuild kit. Your carb was working by your account for 100 miles so it's likely to be something like a gasket fail or float needle valve IMO

that is what he told me, yes, but I'd already drawn my own conclusions due the strong smell of petrol at idle and brand new plugs getting sooted up after less than 10 miles. Sound right?

Please keep the replies coming, I'm determined to get to the bottom of this. As said in earlier posts, next move is to take the carb to pieces, ultrasonically clean, and rebuild with rebuild kit, will keep you posted.