info needed with 1.9 to 2.1 engine swap

[kevtherev]

A proper fix would be a helicoil

A proper fix, for me, would be drill and tap, to the next size up which is 10 mm, using an 8.8mm drill bit. (8.5 would be ok but the tap would be tight)

however if you have an imperial set you can drill out what remains of the threads with an 11/32" drill, then a 10mm (1.25) tap. enabling a standard 10mm bolt to be used.

[Ian Hulley]

I had this with a couple of heads so I had some M10 back to M8 adaptor studs made, turned down from M10 screwed rod.

Ian

[Rich Tea]

I had this with a couple of heads so I had some M10 back to M8 adaptor studs made, turned down from M10 screwed rod.

I saw that Heritage sell an M10 to M8 stud, which could be an option for me if the studs don't hold.

Anyway, I've just come in after a busy weekend; the 1.9 has been removed and is now stinking out my garage (that overheated oil is noxious stuff!). I also found the cause of the overheating when I was flushing the cooling pipes; the distribution junction had a huge vertical split down main column and half way round the spigot from the matrix. In its place is my 2.1 DJ (new junction on order from Brickwerks).

I went the Carb route in the end, it just seemed so much easier, but still a number of hurdles along the way.

1. The Blue (1.9) water temp switch I bought from GSF doesn't fit the electrical connections (looks like the one off the 2.1); did they change them at any point? What's the difference between the 1.9 and 2.1 sensor?

2. The pipe from the bleed valve on the thermo housing was blocked solid (now cleared, and the small hole in the top of the thermo housing.

3. It took a while but I managed to salvage a complete exhaust system from the DG and the DJ.

4. Had a bit of trouble getting the inlet manifold to fit. Both the DG and the DJ had thick spacers /gaskets. I'd bought some 1mm gaskets, couldn't figure out if I should use these with the spacers or not. It wouldn't seat properly with both, so just bolted it down on the original spacers. Can anyone tell me what I should be using there?

5. Had to give the carb a good clean as it was covered in oil and gunk.

6. I left the DJ distributor fitted; it seems to have an extra nipple (pointing to the back of the van) on the vac advance (which isn't on the DG distributor. Can I just leave this or should I route it anywhere? Or, is it necessary to fit the DG distributor?

As it does, the work expanded to fit the allotted time, so I ended up rushing the last few bits, just so I could check the van starts. It didn't , I got a few tries out of it before the battery went flat. I think I’ve hooked it up correctly; does anyone have any ideas for anything which I might have missed?

I have to say that I was hoping for success this weekend, so a little disappointed. The battery’s on charge, so I’ll play more after work tomorrow.

Cheers

Rich

[Ian Hulley]

2. The pipe from the bleed valve on the thermo housing was blocked solid (now cleared, and the small hole in the top of the thermo housing.

That's the problem with folks using radweld and K-seal kind of products

4. Had a bit of trouble getting the inlet manifold to fit. Both the DG and the DJ had thick spacers /gaskets. I'd bought some 1mm gaskets, couldn't figure out if I should use these with the spacers or not. It wouldn't seat properly with both, so just bolted it down on the original spacers. Can anyone tell me what I should be using there?

When we did Matt's swap Steve Mocki was saying he thought it was the thicker gasket (which wouldn't seat properly) luckily I had an engine gasket set to hand and we used a thin one out of that ... straight on ! I know I've taken thick ones off 2.1 injections in the past.

Ian

[Mocki]

mine has the thicker gaskets in place..... its a struggle but i have never had an air leak!

the sender should be blue, and yes there are two types of plug. The difference tween 2.1 and 1.9 is that the 2.1 is a sender for the FI brain, and the 1.9 one is a switch for the carb heater.

look on the senders section on brickwerks for specs and info.
http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/shop?page=s ... ory_id=119" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sadly the blockage thing is common when people try and find the chemical fix for mechanical problems.

the dissy is fine, just block the spare port off and use the one facing the carb.

cant answer the not starting thing, go back to basics, fuel-spark-air.
make sure you have power to the idle run on solenoid on the carb - should be live when the coil is, and ensure you have the ignition system earth onto the top of the LH head(brown wire with loop connector)

Oh, and ensure the fuel pump pipes are the correct way round...... and that you remembered the fuel pump push rod!!! (dont ask)

[Rich Tea]

Thanks guys.

No progress today I'm afraid, I was reminded that I have more important things to do, so had to take the night off.

make sure you have power to the idle run on solenoid on the carb - should be live when the coil is, and ensure you have the ignition system earth onto the top of the LH head(brown wire with loop connector)

I think all these connections are made, however, these cables got hot during the overheat, the sleeve was charred and I needed to re-insultate a couple of them. I'll make a note to check the conductivity of all the cables.

Next problem, I found out today that there are three different distribution junctions.

251.121.438
251.121.438A
251.121.438B

251.121.438A is for the automatic and has an extra spigot. The difference between ....438 and 438B is that on 438B there is a horizontal section at the bottom which accommodates the heater matrix return at the same level as the radiator return (lower than on the 438 where the matrix return is half way up the vertical tube.

The one that came off my van was 251.121.438 unfortunately I ordered 251.121.438B from brickwerks yesterday, before I realised.

VW say that 251.121.438 is discontinued, as did the chap I spoke to at Brickwerks. VW don't list 438B as an alternative part. Here's the question, does the 251.121.438B fit and does it do the same job? Has anyone tried it?
Cheers Rich

[Rich Tea]

Time for an up-date

The starting problem was down to the fuel pump. I fitted the mechanical pump from the overheated 1.9. Although the spacer flange looked ok, the pin was really stiff in it. I guess it had warped a little and that the fuel pump spring wasn't strong enough to push the pin back down. A replacement spacer flange fixed the issue.

The broken distribution matrix was fixed with 251.121.438B. The spigot to the RH head is further to the right than 251.121.438 so it fitted the 2.1 kinked hose. The 1.9 kinked hose doesn't reach across as far, it was heat damaged anyway so wasn't usable. The only other difference is that the heater matrix return spigot is lower down.

The van now starts and runs.

Next problem is that the temperature gauge has stopped working completely, the red light flashes for short time and goes out as it should, but the gauge needle doesn't move. It was working when we overheated, although didn't indicate overly hot temperatures at the time (I assume that was due to a low water level in the engine). I've only got as far as putting the yellow/red cable to earth (gauge didn't move). I'll start by checking continuity of the cables. Is there anywhere worth checking?

I moved the van around on the drive, but don't want to take her out until I've got the gauge working and have run her up to temperature, whilst keeping a careful eye on her. Also need to check the timing, a bloke at work has loaned me a strobe light, so I'll give that a go (first time for everything).

One thing I have noticed is a loud sucking noise from the carb, it sounds like a leaking compressed air hose. I don't remember it being like that on the 1.9, is it something to worry to about?

The work continues... Cheers Rich

[Mocki]

that "sucking " noise is a induction leak, you need to find it.
spray WD40 round the bottom of the inlet manifold and bottom of carb and all the vac hoses and connections with the engine running , it will increase revs briefly when it sucks the WD40 in.........

check the temp gauge sender has a neg connection, just joining the wires together wont provve anything if the other wire isnt connected !!

also check you are using a temp gauge sender NOT a switch. see earlier post in this thread.

[Rich Tea]

Cheers Mocki,

The sucking sound seems to have disappeared, I tried the WD40 trick anyway, and it made no difference, so if it was an induction leak, it's not there now. Hopefully it's gone for good.

For the gauge, I checked the conductivity of all the cables, the problem turned out to the dodgy dash connector It's never affected the temp gauge before (everything else, but not the temp gauge until now).

I took the van for a drive, I didn't get too far before the gauge indicated overtemperture and the red LED came on. No fan though. I'd fitted a new GSF temp sensor, so I suspected that that may be the cause. I've just been up the yard tonight to change it back to the old one. Had to bleed the system again

One thing that concerned me tonight was the noise from the cooling System after I turned the engine off! I've never had that when I've bleed the system before. It sounded worse than my belly does half an hour before lunch time. I followed the Haynes procedure, got he van really warm, with thermostat open, heater on hot etc. I repeated the process again and got the same noise. I'm guessing there must still be air trapped in the system. I ran out of time to do anymore (the yard has a time lock and I didn't fancy an impromptu camping trip). I might try a short drive and try again another day, perhaps following Simon Baxters method on the Wiki.

I checked the rad whilst it was running with my infrared pyrometer, temp seems quite uniform over the surface 71°C +/- 2°C. Not quite hot enough to test the fan. So at least I can rule out a blocked rad.

Not sure when I'll get chance to play again.

Cheers
Rich

[toomanytoys]

DG's use the thin manifold gaskets.. I've never had a leak on them...

bleeds open and run it, and check the rad after..

[Rich Tea]

It flashed up red again on the way home from the yard. Bled the system and it's still getting hot.

The return pipe from the rad isn't getting warm, 30°C as apposed to 97°C for the by-pass pipe. I guess I have to suspect the thermostat even though it opened in a pan of boiling water before I fitted it. The rad stayed cold for ages but eventually started getting warm (conduction??) I have a spare old one I can swap it for.

It's stuck on the drive now until I sort this problem as the MOT is up tomorrow! Starting to loose heart with it now

Any thoughts on what else could be the problem appreciated, especially if there's an easy test to go with it.

Cheers

Rich

[Mocki]

could be just a airlock, could be some stray sealant covering the port of a pipe fitting, seen it before, and it dont take much to block some of the smaller pipes fittings.

the gurgling suggests a airlock or boiling.
are you sure the pressure cap is ok? and check the header tank for cracks, even if both are new.

[Rich Tea]

It's running just fine now .

Swapping the thermostat seemed to do the job. Cooling system working as it should, I even covered over the rad and had the fan cycling on and off. Temperature stays stable and no flashing red light thank god.

I got the van MOT'd on Friday with only two advisories (non engine related).

It seems to pull like a train now.

A big thanks to those who answered questions and gave their encouragement and support .

Just a few things to fiddle with now, replacing the water for coolant and sorting out the timing, I might ask a couple more questions on that last point.

Cheers

Rich

[Rich Tea]

This update brings not so good news.

Once I was confident that there were no leaks after running it for two weeks with water only, I filled it with coolant and it now seems to leak from both water jacket seals and the elbow on right hand cylinder head.

Managed to get away for our first weekend of the year but it's clearly something that's going to need keeping an eye on and ultimately fixing.

So perhaps the second hand engine was not such good idea after all.

At a bit of loss to know what to do next.

['GHOSTWHEEL']

Is it worth the extra cost buying the 2.1DJ instead of 1.9DG engine? Is there noticeable difference driving. Need new engine in my bus. Not seen many 2.1DJ for sale and the ones I have, have been pricey.