so c'mon, is the AAZ conversion worth it?

[charlie brown syndrome]

hi all,

right,
ive recently bought a van and after mulling through the different information ive decided to go for the AAZ conversion, mainly because i HAD heard good things about it and how it makes the type 25 more useable, and because ive got a lot if not all parts to do the conversion easily (but how easy is it?, again ive read conflicting stories about how easy it is)
is it worth the time, hassle, money to convert it?
just recently, especially on here i have noticed a few 'AAZ overheating' 'AAZ starting problems' 'AAZ this and that and other problems' threads starting to surface,
ive got a 1.6td in mine which isnt running great (hence the conversion, but ive been told a warped manifold could be the cause) what is the difference in driveability of a decent jx and a decent AAZ, i know theres not a lot in the way of power (bhp), so what about mpg, speed, acceleration, cruising speed, quietness?

when an AAZ is put in to a type 25/t3 do you then spend all the time trying to stop it overheating, fitting oil coolers, guages (now affectionately known as worry guages )
any comment from AAZ owners, was it worth the hassle, any comments on any of the above points?
i personally just want a good reliable, motor to get me and the family around, i can see why people fit the pug xud engine now, 1.9td, i used to work on these engines and very rarely did the engine mess up, if they did it was usually because of neglect, they are a good strong motor.

sorry to ramble on but any comments are welcomed

[futbus]

Fitted mine in my syncro about 4 years ago and apart from replacing normal service bits has been fine, starts in all weathers and travelled about 60K since fitting.

Well worth the effort in my opinion.

Next conversion when this one goes south will be the tdi 1.9.

[Russel]

I have fitted probably 25+ of thee engines over the last 7 years with no overheating,starting or any other problems.
When it comes to problems people dont tell you whot they have done to the engine before these problems arise. Such as fitting different boost pins to up fueling, increasing turbo pressure just to name a few. All these things will drastically increase temp but if left standard they are fine.
This is a very well worth it upgrade.
Russel

[charlie brown syndrome]

cheers fella's
this is what i wanted to hear,
its just that there seem to be a lot of threads in technical about over heating and the reason i want to change my engine is for something more reliable,

[dazzerT251900td]

Hi there charlie,i had a 16td in mine when it came from Germany,but when going camping and we were fully loaded we died on the hills,and now i am using my t25 now for work every day its great having my aaz engine in.much better on the hills and mpg is about the same i reckon,maybe even better.its worth it.daz

[hairyuk]

i bought a van complete with the aaz conversion i used to have a petrol 2.0l air cooled t2 that would easily reach 90mph, but for everyday driving the fuel economy wasnt ideal.
so i looked into geting a t25 and putting a tdi engine in, power plus fuel economy being my preference.
after scouring the forums i found that you cant get a vw gearbox that will cruize at the revs that the tdi max's at without getting it re-geared and that the bearings in the box's will not cope well with the large amount of torque some of these engines put out.
so i came across a van that had already had aaz engine work done for me (rev's 1000rpm higher than tdi) and bought that as a compromise.
the gearbox was whining like mad and if i screwed the nuts off it i could get to about 85 fuel consumtion was probably no better than my Aircooled.
i bought a second hand aap gearbox (one with the best gear ratios) and fitted that next plan was to buy some larger wheels to try to give me a cruising speed of 70.
but after taking the van onto a private road i realised the engine does not have the power to push the van past 85 with the new gearing, so fitting bigger wheels is not an option at the moment and cruising speed is probably around the 60mph and fuel consumption i's not as good as i imagined

my conclusion is your not going to go or cruise any faster than you are with your 1.6td, but you won't slow down on hills thats the only advantage

Thats why people are modifing there 1.9td there not happy with them (increasing boost pressure = higher temps) i to will be trying to increase power, so i can cruise at a reasonable speed without having my thirsty aaz's foot flat to the floor, most of the time

[Russel]

Engine conversions will never give you more speed if not coupled with a different gearbox. The AAZ is purely for more drivability and comfort on the road.
I you start messing with the engine for more power then you should be fitting a TDI to start with.
I have seen many a shagged AAZ due to trying to get more out of it and the fact that your fuel consumption goes to shi---.
Russel

[Fully Loaded Cali']

35 combined 38+ motorway at 65mph on a well set up AAZ that is obviously in good condition. Jx box. Westy van (so heavy before you load it up).

Can't do that in an air cooled.

AAZ has a fantastic Tourque band, you have all the bhp on tap exactly where you need it on a van.

It's not and never going to be a race car - but will drive very well, keeping up with modern traffic with ease and actually a bit of fun if some corsa kid pulls up to you at the lights.

[Sagemagoo]

Had my 1.7 ripped out and an AAZ put in last year - no contest between the two. The biggest difference by far is going up hills, the AAZ maintains speed although the top end ís similar to the 1.7 - 60mph you can hear the radio/talk, 65mph things start rattling/getting noisy and 70mph showing off overtaking bays...

Had a go of a mate's 1.6TD and found you had to keep the turbo spinning to get any torque, the AAZ just seemed to have more grunt.

Fitted the oil cooler as a precaution, noticed that in the 1.7, the temperature gauge didn't move past just below middle once it warmed up but the AAZ is quite has three distinct places it settles depending on the above speeds.

Overall for cost/performance I'm happy with the AAZ although if a TDi fell into my lap....

[syklist]

We bought a Syncro that has already had an AAZ TD fitted professionally here in Norway. Engine is strong here in the hills, and has ample torque to cope with short and longer inclines. I have never driven a 1.6td to be able to compare it with but the AAZ seems to be a nice strong engine. We won't win any standing start drag races but that is not what it is about. I'm not sure what the gearing is on a Syncro (4 speed + stump puller first) but we've seen 140km/h on the German motorways and it sounds happy cruising at 120-130km/h. We're running the van with stock 14" wheels and tyres.

Fuel consumption for the first 3400km (translated into English 1900 miles) is 30.8mpg. This includes driving the van fully laden from Trondheim to Gol in Norway, unladen back down to Utrecht in Holland, back up to Gol, motorway cruising at 100-110km/h, 3/4 full with a full roof box on the top and two bikes on a rear rack. For 2000km we had a leaking fuel injection pipe which will have dragged the fuel consumption figures down a bit.

The idea of a more frugal, more powerful and more modern TDI is enticing but the AAZ works very well with our van for the time being.
Cheers
Stan

[hairyuk]

since my last comment on here i have installed some gauges and found that my turbo wasnt actually giving any boost untill i reved the nuts off it. so after a bit of tweaking with the waste gate nuts i can now say that the aaz engine is definetley worth upgrading to. i've got the boost set to 10 psi and it pulls like a train now and it kicks in pretty quickly and does not take long to spool up, so lots of torque even at lowish revs.

[smokeyjon]

Where r u in Bristol hairyuk? I'm in Fishponds and have an AAZ in my syncro. It's always good to know some local folk. Wanted to get some gauges into mine and see how things are running but have never got round to it....

Back to the thread.... My AAZ's been pretty good for the last 30k miles although needed a head gasket when I bought it at 118k. Much better than the JX but I also had a GTD engine in my old van (SB?) and that was also pretty good (albeit with pretty bad turbo lag and a cracked head...)

I have had problems with my AAZ running hot recently though, but I think they're more to do with having a leaky old cooling system. Compare the 'my JX is running hot/smoking/not starting/head gasket gone' to those about the AAZ and you'll probably reach the (sensible) conclusion that the AAZ is a worthwhile upgrade. Just don't expect miracles from something 15+ years old!

[HarryMann]

Hi Jon, Good honest appraisal there...

Whatever AAZs are, they're strong IMO.

Heads can crack on all the VW diesels, I've had a very badly cracked head on one, can't imagine how it continued to run, but does make them get very hot (oil as well as water), even if no actually using water.

Pretty sure a JX turbo, or a JX manifold layout is far from ideal for them. The turbo off the Golf SB might be better suited, the extra 300cc reducing the lag it gives as you say on the 1.6 Golf

[Dave W]

I also asked myself this question recently "is the AAZ upgrade worthwhile". After searching the forums for plenty of research i decided it wasnt. Reasons these AAZ`s are 15 + years old now ,most if not all have over 100 000 miles on em and little if any service history. They have there problems i.e suffer from cracked heads, loose crank pulley etc, and they run hotter than "jx "engines.
However if u can find a known good AAZ example (good luck with that!!!!) and can strip it down yourself AND fit it to your van yourself it might be worth doing. If however like me you dont have the time to strip the AAZ and check it internally (necessary on an engine with over 100 000 miles on it as a precautionary measure), after all why buy a 15 year old engine, fit it only to find it has issues and needs taking apart?????????, than maybe think again.
To have a good garage source an AAZ engine and fit it to your van WITHOUT stripping the engine down first (i.e no idea of mileage but likely over 100 000 miles but it sounds ok so should be right!!!???!!!) you could be looking at anywhere between £2000 to £2500 upwards. PLUS the cost of any additional work the engine internals may need and possible oil cooler upgrade etc (as you have already mentioned) as the majority of people who run AAZ`s appear to agree this is a must due to the higher running temp then it begins to look an expensive option.
This put me off and so I decided to have the cracked head replaced on my jx and also replaced the radiator, water pump thermostat (all precautionary measures) and then had the engine set up properly i,e valve clearences, new filters, injectors checked, turbo checked, pump timing set spot on AND it runs like a dream in my westy hi-top compared to before and cost way way less than having a 15 year old AAZ engine fiited. This set up was the best way forward for me im happy with it, yes you`ll get up hills a little faster with an AAZ and have some more torque on the road but id rather keep the money in my pocket and arrive a little later, dont dismiss the JX engine properly serviced and tuned its a cracking little engine.
You may think different but i just thought id share my opinion. IF i was going to replace the engine then i think it would be for a proper TDI yes it costs:- Engine, wiring, gearbox modded to suit but to me its got to be the way forward more and more people appear to be going down this route rather than the AAZ route ask yourself why?????
I dont mean to upset anyone with this post but thought it needed a different view, from someone who HAS pondered over this exact question myself earlier this year.Cue the disagreements and arguements regarding my post.

[ringo]

I can't disagree with you Dave.

Simple fact is changing to a AAZ is cheap. If you have a JX engine running fine i wouldn't bother fitting an AAZ. An AAZ is just a cheap replacement for a JX.

If you have the money and a van you cherish (and its worth the investment) then yes, i agree, stick a TDI in it.

However, theres a massive hike in price difference between self fitting an AAZ and self fitting a TDI. Not sure how it compares at a garage - but you are talking at least the cost of a gearbox if you want to maximise benefit from the TDI.

I do all my own engine changes now and for me a TDI is not affordable or worth putting in my van. I'd have to get a mechanical pump for it (i cant be assed with the electrics) and th gearbox. Probly 2k's worth there. Sure, there are others that can do it cheaper im sure, but not me.

So thats why AAZ is still popular now IMHO.

Cheers,

Ringo