transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

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Tallulah43
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transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by Tallulah43 »

Soz, but didn't know which forum to put this in.

This might be a reaaaaaaally doh question but

our van says Transporter on it
its a high top
on the High top it has J.A.P on the bottom corner of the high top.

so, question is, did this come out of the factory as a van or camper (or how do I find out)

and I'm assuming that JAP is something to do with the high top, so could this be the company that converted it if its converted.
its a right hand drive.

Reason I'm asking is that we want to put 3 x 3point seatbelts on the full size rock n roll bed

Also, did anyone come to a conlusion about the safest rock n roll bed please as we have 3 kids in child seats....a 5 year old, a 20month old and a 8 month old. 2 of these seats are compatable with lap belts which are already fitted but in my car they are on 3 point belts in the back of my Peugeot and I want to keep them this safe.

Sorry, long post but deperate for answers for safety of my kids :ok
Thanks

Lisa

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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by Cruz »

Haven't a clue who J.A.P are but their are far more knowledgeable people than me who will know

As far as I am aware no van left the factory as a camper. They were converted later by seperate companies with Westfalia being the official one.

It is possible to fit 2 x 3 point belts in the back but I doubt you'll get a 3rd in there, the middle belt will have to be a lap belt. The ease of fitting all depends on whether your van left the factory as a caravelle or a panel van. Caravelles have the upper mounting holes for rear seat belts whereas panel vans need that hole creating and a mounting plate fitting which acts as a strengthening 'load spreader' (available from brickwerks).

However as your van says Transporter on the back it most likely left the factory as a panel van and was then converted to a camper so it will need the 3 point seat belt kit from Brickwerks as well as the mounting plate for the upper mount (see link below) which will need drilling into the panel. Easier access for fitting this mount can be acheived by removing the rear platic air vents. In fact there may be a small dimple in the panel where the mounting hole should be? (not 100% on that)

http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?k ... hop.browse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also see this guide http://www.brickwerks.co.uk/index.php?o ... 5&Itemid=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also have a read of the Club Wiki as it covers a lot of things https://club8090.co.uk/wiki/Main_Page" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So to recap you can fit two 3 point belts but you will need to drill the upper rear mounting hole then get the mounting plate spot welded to the panel inside the apperture where the rear plastic air vent lives. The remaining 2 mounting points 'should' be there for fitting the remainder of the belt system.

And Bluebird customs R&R beds look like a good solid piece of kit. They are available in full width and 3/4 width. It's what I will get when I require the use of the back seats.

http://www.bluebird-type2.co.uk/T25interior.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tallulah43
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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by Tallulah43 »

thanks Cruz, that answers a load for me

at present, it has 3 lap belts in back, hubby used to be a welder making lorries for a living so he should be able to do the seat belts i think :-)

At present, hes making his way around the panels, replacing here, making new ones there.....busy busy busy :wink:

hes hoping to move onto the inside next week so this is where new rear seat to replace the minging home made mdf one that we inherited with it :roll:

thanks
Lisa

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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by jason k »

if your changing the rear seat get a westy one as they are proper crash tested jobs
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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by CovKid »

The one I made had children in mind. It now offers even greater strength in the event of a side-swipe too. I have a six year old who always sat up front as I never felt any of the conventional camper rear seats could be relied upon in the event of a sudden stop. I'm presently improving seat belt fittings in the rear so I can accomodate four childen onboard, two of which could be babies or toddlers and at least two shoulder belts in the rear. Most camper-type rear bench seats have always been a compromise of sorts (and some wholly inadequate in my view) and I wasn't keen on MDF or ply seats as getting a secure anchorage for a seat made of cheap wood isn't easy. Seen far too many that just have 'L' brackets!

With that in mind, I removed the rock n roll hinges from the existing MDF seat, threw the MDF in the bin and set about welding together a strong seat base that is bolted through the floor and rear bulkhead with chunky spreader plates. When making the seat base and back, I designed it so that with the seat base down, I can be sure it won't move an inch and locks into place firmly. I'm very happy with the result and it strengthened the bed base in the process. I feel that the rear seat now far exceeds safety requirements and has provided extra strength across the width of the van without compromising storage space in any way.

Whilst I'm a great advocate of reducing weight in a camper to improve fuel efficiency, I have to put the safety of my passengers above that and since I couldn't find a seat arrangement that I felt confident about, I made one from scratch. The bluebird seat is a good one, but beyond that (or a Westy seat) its cheaper to make one. If you have a friend who can weld, you can always use the design I came up with on page 2 at:

https://club8090.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.p ... n+Roll+bed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or we can make more if theres a demand.
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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by ajp »

I've just bought one of these. Very happy and no concerns about strength!
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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by jason k »

look good but they are still not crash tested, which is why if it was me i would be going the factory route.
98 Westfalia James Cook

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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by ajp »

Its all very good harping on about crash tested westy seats, the seats in question are still 20 odd years old minimum. Given the choice of a 20 year old seat that was a crash tested design when it was not even the law to wear a seat belt (my point being that standards change with time). Or a brand spanking new all metal frame bed...

Another point worth mentioning (I may be wrong so with that in mind!) As far as I'm aware Westy R&R beds have ply/mdf base's still. Crash tested or not 2 decades will not have done this any favours and on a personal note in crash I wouldn't want to be (or any of my family for that point) sat on timber, it has a nasty tendancy to splinter and break under stress.

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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by jason k »

its only my opinion fella, take it or leave it,
as for the mdf your right but my 02 california has the very same mecanism and seat base as the old california. thats surely telling you something.

as has been said elsewhere the seatbelt mounting is the important part of the equation

good luck with whatever you do
98 Westfalia James Cook

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ajp
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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by ajp »

jason k wrote:its only my opinion fella, take it or leave it,
as for the mdf your right but my 02 california has the very same mecanism and seat base as the old california. thats surely telling you something.

as has been said elsewhere the seatbelt mounting is the important part of the equation

good luck with whatever you do

Fair enough, I never said you've couldn't have an opinion, but my point is still valid. No matter how much faith you put into testing stats or even the seatbelt mounting it all becomes a mute point if the base your sat on breaks when it counts! I just can't see how anyone can place any degree of confidence in anything less than a steel frame. Even if the base only flexes its going to have a negative effect on the way the belt works. As for the fact they were still fitting them in 02 plate vans mainly tells you its the cheapest option available for mass production. I'm pretty sure that it still not a legal requirement for motorcaravans to have seatbelts fitted to rear seats. So the major conversion companys still have no need to worry about real crash safety.

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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by CovKid »

This subject seems to be rattling across at least two threads and has come up numerous times before. The fact is, very few seat/bed conversions were built to 'crash' standards and those that were, possibly wouldn't meet modern standards - note I said 'possibly'. I fully appreciate the concerns of parents when it comes to securing their off spring in the rear of the bus as I was in that position myself. I built two wooden rear bed/seats which whilst serving their purpose had inherent weaknesses and even if a seat belt fixing is sound, if the seat can give way under serious deceleration, you introduce a whole new set of problems, more so when the vehicle is loaded with stuff above the engine that can push on the back of the seat .

Various ideas and designs have appeared over the years for more robust rear bed/seats but at the end of the day its about having a seat that is firmly fixed (when in the seat position), and properly anchored, as I've mentioned before, with chunky bolts and spreader plates and belts also properly anchored. Thats as much as you can reasonably aim for. I chose to build my own, and one that I felt would absolutely meet those requirements, even if it meant a weight increase. In materials it cost well under £100 and I don't see how I could possibly improve upon it. I'm 17 stone (ish) and I can jump on that rear seat, and three heafty blokes couldn't tear it out with their bare hands (a good acid test for wooden seats). I am very happy to seat three children on it and it simply will not move. The rear bulkhead and floor offer good places to create fixings. For those choosing to make their own, the full width is 155cm and the seat should end up level (without boards or cushions) with the rear enging hatch level. The frame is very easy to make and hinges can be mounted or even welded to the sides of the frame as appropriate.

We can rattle on all day about what each thinks is safe but in the absence of a real standard, you fit what you personally feel confident with. Mine may be overkill in terms of guage of steel etc but its not made of recycled bunkbeds or reliant on screws in chipboard or plywood or farty 'L' brackets. In total, it does add the weight of one person but at the same time it occupies less space than a series of boards and bracing pieces. I can also remove it if I wanted to. As a parent I have absolute confidence in it - unlike the previous wooden ones I built. There are six potential seat anchor points although I found four were plenty. Sorry, don't have pic with base and back at mo but you get the idea.

Tallulah43 - if you want all the exact measurements etc, happy to supply. We can make them, but they don't work out as cheap that way, but your welder should be able to replicate what we did. The two uprights and the two front horizontal bars are VERY thick box section - they DO NOT bend whatsoever. We used heavy stuff to maximise space and obviate need for bracing. The rest (ie feet and top of sides) is angle. Back horizontal piece wasn't essential but created more anchor points. Seat back and base can be made from heavy ply or even steel-framed - few choices there.

The front of the seat can be infilled with a board or made into a cupboard with doors for storage. I just happen to have a tank under mine.

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Tallulah43
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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by Tallulah43 »

hi covkid

hubby said if you could send him measurements that would be great..he is a welder:-)
he asked if you used 50 box for the uprights etc

thanks
Lisa

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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by CovKid »

Will check on the box but you sure couldn't bend it :D

I used the Marcle Leisure hinges as they're well made. He might be able to lighten some areas once he sees the construction. For instance he could use lighter box if braced.
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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by ajp »

Covkid, a question about your bed. Are you still going to use ply/mdf for the actual base and backrest? I only ask because if you are you've gained no extra strength in the back even with a custom build frame. In the event of a rear end crash you're back to square one with a collapsing board. I don't wish to pick fault but this was my reason for going with an all metal frame bed.

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Re: transporter high top and what rnr bed to use for safety????

Post by CovKid »

No - back and base are framed.
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