I'm currently dropping engine oil all over the place, so its time to do the crank seal behind the flywheel.
I've read the WIKI, the Haynes Manual and searched the forum, but still have questions (sorry!)
The Haynes manual suggests that you can remove the gearbox and take the flywheel off, with the engine in-situ (firmly chocked up with the van suitably supported). How feasible is this - anyone attempted it??
The only reason I am trying to go down this route is that the engine is running so well, I am loathe to disturb it and break something else!
Am I mad ?
Thanks in advance,
Alex
Last edited by T25Convert on 07 May 2010, 14:36, edited 1 time in total.
The oil is deffinitley engine rather than gearbox oil (I'm loosing engine oil at a rate, whilst the gearbox is full and staying that way), and is dribbling out between the case and the bell housing.
It is do able.. need to support the engine well as you can only lower the flywheel end so far....
Man handling the gearbox out and in is a good un.. it is heavy.. a second trolly jack is needed and several blocks of wood to prevent crushed arms etc...
Personally I'd take the engine out, Its easier than you'd think, less than 1/2 a day to get it out, then you can move it around to get at everything easily.
I would of thought if it were the crankshaft seal leaking badly it would be on the clutch but you'll find out once its out.
Hi
We had the same oil seal done at a vw specialist 3 times in the end i put some of that stuff you put in with the oil (stop leak or someting like that) and after about a year it slow ed down to a tiny drip. I think you have to acsept that you have an older van and she is marking her teritory. Life is very short so are summer hollidays just enjoy
Nik
The flywheel retaining screws are supposed to be single use and will need replacing. They were available from VW van centre 2 years ago (you need 5) and a IIRC 10mm hexagon drive (i.e. a 10mm allen key in a socket).
Ian.
The Hulley's Bus 1989 2.1DJ Trampspotter LPG courtesy of Steve @ Gasure
Ah, thanks for that - didn't realise that the bolts were single use.
Presumably they are stretch bolts and thats why they are single use?
Will try my VW van centre, as the only other place (VW Heritage) that lists them is out of stock.
Its always the little things that seem so hard to source - you'd think that as everyone does the actual seals they would also do all the bits that enable you to get the seal in and out!!
Kev - Thanks for the tip, no one has any flywheel bolts.
All my local VW van centres have confirmed that they are obsolete. VW Heritage are the only company I can find who list them, but they are 'out of stock' and speaking to them they will be for some time.
I now know the size (thanks to VW) is M12 * 1.50 * 20mm, so a fine metric allen/cap bolt.
You're right on the size ... as we speak I have 2 used ones on the window cill here in my office (along with the broken 4/5th synchro hub that ended our 2007 holiday in Brussels) ... there appears to be no stretching section on them, they are setscrews (threaded all the way down) and it say's 'KXA2' presumably coated stainless and '10 9' presumably the hardness.
When I tried to acquire some before I was lead to believe the size/pitch combination was a 'special'.
Ian.
The Hulley's Bus 1989 2.1DJ Trampspotter LPG courtesy of Steve @ Gasure
The size appears to be standard, with M12 'fine' metric thread at 1.50 pitch (rather than the 'coarse 1.75 thread which is more common). They are quite stumpy, with most M12 seeming to be 35mm+ in length. The difficulty seems to be getting them in 10.9 grade with the cap head.
So, as they are stainless coated plain 10.9 steel set screws with no necking strectch section, do I really need to replace them (other than the fact that they are bound to try and round out internaly when I undo them!) There should be no degredation of a standard set screw as far as I can see, as there will not have been any plastic deformation of the shaft.
I am wary as I don't want my flywheel to come in and try and join me in the van, but at the same time they are tricky to obtain if I don't strictly need them....
You can have the trans out in under an hour, with a single floorjack and without draining any fluids, vs. several hours and a much bigger mess to drop the engine, and the massive can of worms that always seems to open up. Why anyone would drop the engine is beyond me, people do crazy things sometimes.
A leaky mainseal will not oil the clutch unless it is extremely severe, so slipping clutch is not a necessary condition to diagnose a mainseal leak. Oil does get directly into the clutch when the flywheel o-ring is bad. Have one of these on hand as it needs to be replaced too.
Mainseal leaks are the norm, but there are several galley plugs in the bellhousing end of the crankcase, sometimes these leak, too. The 1/2" one for the main galley (in the left case half) is the most notorious. You should preclude their leaking while you have access, the quick n' dirty way is to clean off and rough sand the plugs and a patch surrounding them, degrease, and apply a cap of JB Weld over each.
The flywheel bolts are not TTY (torque-to-yield, aka "stretch bolts") so they are not single use only. Why this myth persists is also something I don't understand ( a TTY fastener is easily identified by its torquing spec saying "torque to x pounds and then turn x degrees further"; the wbx FW bolts have a simple torque spec). You can reuse your old ones with assurance, again and again, uness you bugger out the sockets. They are 10mm in-hex, final torque is 80 ft.lb. Use a little Loctite on the threads for the final tightening. Having a VW flywheel lock is also very useful here, they can be had from any VW aftermarket parts supplier for less than $10 (what's that, 6 pounds?)
Spend a little on a dial indicator and holder (only $30 here gets you both, so many uses). You will want to check the crankshaft endplay and adjust it if it is out of spec, or your new mainseal may leak too. If the case is an old-style 1.9 with a flanged #1 thrust bearing you will also want to check that the thrust bearing is not moving axially in the case, or your efforts will also come to naught.
Mainseals get replaced again and again because people neglect to deal with the flywheel hub which has to ride in the seal. Wbx's run long enough without needing teardown (as opposed to aircooleds) that a groove develops on the flywheel hub. If you put the flywheel back without dealing with the groove it will just leak again, immediately. If the groove is deep enough to catch your fingernail in, it's too far gone and you're into a new flywheel. If it's less than that, the groove can be sanded and polished out by spinning the flywheel slowly while using progressively finer grades of sandpaper, starting with a 40grit and progressing bit by bit to about 1000grit, so the groove is gone and there is a fine polish on the hub. This is the only way to guarantee a dry seal.
Having the flywheel off it's a good time to get it resurfaced by a machinist, and install new clutch components if indiacted. At minimum, even if pressure plate and disc are OK, put in a fresh throw-out bearing. The TOB is the life-limiter on a clutch (first thing to wear out) so why not buy time 'til the next time this needs to be done?
You'll also have the driveaxles at least halfway out; if they haven't been relubed and rebooted in awhile, here's your chance.
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