VW Engine Run On Water

[CovKid]

Its possible to achieve way way more than a 10% saving by developing your own unique generator. There are infinite ways of building them plus a wide choice of cell configurations and designs.

If you're looking for a UK guy getting into this check out the LDV driver (mentioned earlier) who is still trying various designs. They do seem to work and if you build one of the many designs that can produce heaps of hydrogen in a very short space of time, you'll see much better fuel economy.

His baseline fuel consumption was 37.4 mpg and with HHO its 44.7 mpg, and thats using a relatively small home-made unit. Watch:

http://www.watervan.co.uk/videolog.php

I actually sat through all of his clips last night.

[4Short]

I know this was all being discussed a while ago, but I had to post this link:

http://www.goodcleantech.com/2008/04/h2 ... e_into.php

[CovKid]

Now you're taking the pi$$ 4Short heh heh

[CovKid]

Seems to me, the amperage will be way too high without a pulse width generator. Fortunately these are easily obtained on ebay these days.

Theres a lot of discussion on whether browns gas is actually free energy since it relies on the battery to split water which has to takes its power from the engine anyway but given that there are set ups that with enough cells to power an engine exclusively on water, there has to be something in it. The technology is at least 90 years old but we seem to have improved upon it since then and its viable now with high fuel prices.

[HarryMann]

Even if it took as much energy to split as you get back in, or even more, provided the battery was being re-charged on braking/ over-run (regeneratively)... then again, 'some' of that recovered energy would be available to generate hydrogen later, the battery 'storing' that energy. Some systems even used a small quantity of stored gas, just a few litres to act as gas buffer as generation isn't alwasy immediate...

In fact, about 20 years ago I was asked to 'sit in' on a meeting between a business investment group and an 'inventor' who they were currently funding for development of just such a system, to give a post meeting technical appraisal (funding was becoming critical) ... he was very cagey about some areas, but he had supposedly a car running, and it also used regenerative chargig from the front wheels, or planned to.

The cell involved was what we are talking about here now, but he kept some of it close to his chest, but I believed that it worked to an extent.. the main thrust being recovery of braking energy and the gas was only generated and fed into the engine after an idling or braking period, to assist acceleration back up to speed and reduce emissions.

So 'any' gas that is produced up to the point that more energy is removed from the battery than being recovered under deceleration - is a good thing, economy-wise. I think he too was storing a small amount, but woldn't reveal, even to the investors, all the tricks or all the technology, one of their concerns.. bit of a 'mad scientist', who knew there was something in it, but didn't trust anyone entirely... and never quite came across with all he facts necessary to make a full appraisal.

[Rozzo]

well if you forget O2 as there is plenty any way, and just think about hydrogen... you can increase the calorific value of the fuel charge with a small amount of hydrogen... sort of a helping hand..in a standard engine

the power needed to electrolyse the water would only be like a lighting circuit

just seen this thread,, fascinating stuff and i agree with kev. a bit like the power increase you get with nitrous oxide but for different reasons
better tho cos to get the power increase with n2o you also have to increase the fuel.

[joshb]

personally I think this jam jar hydrogen stuff is a load of poo. Whilst it is scientificaly sound that you can electrolyse water to produce H2 ( its been powering space vessels for years and is called a fuel cell and uses platinum electrodes i believe), the amount of H2 needed to produce any difference to the economy of a vehicle is just not obtainable from a jam jar of water with a steel electrode.... When you think about how much mixed fuel and air engine sucks in per cycle, then you add your H2 from your fizzing jam jar.... it just wont make enough H2 at the volume required to make any real difference! its like those ebay electric superchargers... poo, poo,,poo! It is possible to make your vehicle run off H2 ,( there was a program on radio 4 about it a couple weeks ago) but not with this fundamentally flawed method

[kevtherev]

personally I think this jam jar hydrogen stuff is a load of poo.

I don't think you have really read all of this thread have you?

even my post suggests an increase in calorific value of the fuel charge not a replacement of dino fuel.

brown gas engines are a fact... the technology to make it mainstream is there but limited...for now

not long ago LPG went through the same thing

[joshb]

I did read it... well mostly,,, ok I skimmed through,, I did catch your bit about calorific value. What I am saying is the tehniques suggested wont increase calorific value of the inlet charge to a degree that would be noticable as it just cant produce enough volume/quantity of gas especially under load at highway speeds... probably get more calorific increase by connecting a pipe from my bum to the inlet .. I will see if i can find a link to the radio 4 program a few weeks back, about hydrogen powered cars. it was very interesting, It talked about fuel cell cars, hybrids, and a system which made a normal engine run on hydrogen using an electrolyser that was plugged into the mains that filled a tank... and you filled a tank in your car from it... I think.. ( i may have that all wrong though) . Whilst I do think it has to be the way foward, and I applaud the efforts I cant see how the systems discussed can produce enough hydrogen to do diddly squat.. although I am completey open to having my mind changed and told I am wrong..
some info on 'browns' gas http://www.phact.org/e/bgas.htm

[HarryMann]

His baseline fuel consumption was 37.4 mpg and with HHO its 44.7 mpg, and thats using a relatively small home-made unit.

As he says that's a 19.5% improvement!!!

I would love to believe it, but at the moment I can't for these reasons...

1) Can see no long term figures and plot of base consumption prior to HHO mods. Just a figure of 37.4 mpg (49 fillups) without the trendline to see how it varies with season, style and usage...

2) Can see only 1 (ONE) post HHO mod figure, 44.7 mpg, which is TBH pretty meaningless, compared to previous 49

3) Have no way of knowing that driving style hasn't been heavily modified prior/post, conciously or sub-conciously... e.g. the post HHO mod figure may have been in heat of summer, no winds, dry roads, taking it easy with light loads cf. a long term seasonal average prior to mod.

Sorry, but more data please MadStu!

[CovKid]

What tends to happen when the subject of HHO generators come up, is you get a deluge of critiques from people who can't be arsed to give it a go themselves. Thats no criticism of sceptics here, but there certainly are people driving around with them and saving fuel. Theres even a new Japanese one that runs WHOLLY on water.

What we're talking about here is simplified (if not raw) versions of technology that really is moving along now. The only way most will take note is in doing it themselves and doing their own readings. There are so many ways of building them including stainless configurations to maximise bubble creation. If you check out you tube there are just loads of them, some of which create masses of hydrogen on fairly low amps.

I'm still tinkering with spirals which seem to yeild the most hydrogen but its just as likely someone else a few miles away is working on their own hunches and getting more than I am - thats the nature of back-street mechanics. Either way, its very cheap in terms of parts and even if you only gained a 5% improvement, that can equate to a fair bit over a year. If you've given it a go and come to the conclusion its 'poo' then fine but there are just too many out there now getting reasonably good results to dismiss the idea. A jam jar no, but a well-made home built generator can produce a surprising amount of hydrogen at seemingly little cost.

[HarryMann]

The commercial company in Kent? Making them for lorries, would show that they work and give about 10% or so, but their installaions are very expensive...

I would just like to see a little more rigour in measuring and publishing the results.

It really is really difficult to show a fuel consumption improvement of as little as 10% over less than a full year, that would be two years of course, a year before and a year after... even assuming the mean temps, weather and duty cycle was the same in a fully corrobative way...

.. without doing calibrated test-track work. Especially in T25s that invariably leak fuel all over the place when brimmed.

[CovKid]

Agree on that Harryman. Its quite difficult to maintain consistent test conditions on the road. That said, they do kick out hydrogen in varying quantities, depending on how you've built your own one and clearly the engines are burning it ok. I'm not sure I'd actually want a generator kicking out enough to run it exclusively on hydrogen as its a fairly explosive fuel although surprisingly, its less of a hazard under most circumstances because it disperses so quickly.

Heres a triple cell:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5kdaUyJQ1 ... re=related

[drumnut182]

This is interesting. Obviously its in development but something to think about because of it wide uses esp in motors.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=efCelx7qe_M

ROB

[HarryMann]

5 times as much power as it consumes, in fact more than that he says....

24 Kw/day

You gotta believe it...

Magnet motors, lots have been working on using magnets ina different way for years