Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again...

[douglas]

Does anyone know if a 1600cc from JustKampers will fit on this block without a make over?

[Oldiebut goodie]

Definitely a 1700 block then.
They do the 1700 head for the same price. Your only problem is if your current head is a 1600 one is that your ports may not match the manifolds. What a dilemma! I have a very scrap 1600 head in my workshop and the number on it is 06810373f which is commensurate with the Just Kampers no. on their 1600 head. The number on your head seems to be a strange sequence and the AMC suffix is odd - surely it isn't a American Motors head ( they hooked up with Renault at one point but can find no mention of a tie up with VW).
I have just measured the size of the actual ports on the 1600 head:
Ex. ports are 24.5mm x 32.5mm
Inlet ports are 29.5mm x 32.5mm
If that helps any ( I would expect the 1700 ones to differ slightly).
If any other measurements would help give me a shout.

[dave friday]

AMC is also a Spanish cylinder head make.
it is possible that a 1700cc head could be ordered from amc Spain.
good luck.

[Oldiebut goodie]

That's handy to know.

T'internet says that AMC in Spain made the cylinder heads for Seat. So it does make sense.

[douglas]

Hello all,
Paul in the 'wanted' section of this forum has measured the inlet and outlet manifolds on an old 1600 he's shelved, He thinks the 1600 head and my block are compatible, by phone and text Shaun at JustKampers has major doubts about the 1600 they sell, and it being a match. They no longer supply a 1700 head. Would it be that the block and head may match 'at gasket' but all the other bits may not?
I have to make a deadline, if I can't solve this parts marriage, I'm going the expensive route, and a new head will have to be made and delivered whenever.
Any info will definitively help any of the current owners using a 1KYA/F motor, i.e. buy a replacement now and store it under the front seat.
Any info appreciated thanks for all so far, this forum is aces up.
Is there a French acronym for snafu - sitiuation normal all f..ked up?
best Douglas

[HarryMann]

Douglas,

Have just come across this thread again, sorry, it seems to have been moved without a shadow...

I am pretty sure I have a 1700 head, although it's stripped but should have most of the camshaft and follower parts.

I've had my own wee parts drama lately so took my eye off the ball, but will go and check I can lay my hands on it today.

PM me if interested and I'll send you my mobile phone number


Clive

[douglas]

Hello,
Thanks to Clive and Paul, and all assistance I've received on this forum.My mechanics expensive head should arrive Monday
With that on the horizon, I would like to know what to check for, post-surgery.
Before we launch,away from this small French town toward Eastern Europe I've got to get it right.
Mechanic told me my head is factory new, and installation should be simple. I would appreciate a list of 'musts' to check off.
As well, what should go along with those essentials. I can't drive away from him without a severe inspection, my children have had enough already.
This is a common enough operation - changing a head. The new one is supposed to be long and complete. What parts should be new and absolutely changed with it?
I know that list starts with stretch bolts.
A coolant system air block from the old head seems to have taken it past the point of no return, (cant' be sure though) how about coolant system check and water pump. Complete oil change? Complete coolant change, for sure. Glow plugs were relatively new, I think, can they be checked? Should I replace them automatically?
I realize trust is the first thing to look for but, there aren't many options here?
The previous owner had no relay/fuse on the fuse board for coolant level,the light never flashed, although the temp needle moved. I jumped the coolant level fuse plugs (#3 to#6) with a bit of wire,after mishap, as learned on this forum, and the light flashed. Are these relays available still and should I get one? Why would it be missing, is this the previous owners idiocy for not telling me?
Gaskets/seals on injection system, how to inspect?
Should I have a new timing belt, even though the old looks okay?
Will injectors have been affected by this 'head trauma'? Will anything else be whacked out by the removal and replacement?
What to look or listen for to see if timing is ok, and is there nothing short of another mechanic to check compression, or will I feel this instantly?
During the 'warming in' period for his work - how should I proceed?
How he tightens the head is everything,right, so, should he and I have a clear protocol about when to tighten up the bolts after 1000 miles?
Is this something I can manage down the road that far, myself?
What oil should i insist on, and what coolant?
My exhaust system laboured over the white plumes of smoke and dripped a strange mix of diesel and coolant, must this be cleaned out?
As well he towed it a short distance with chains, is there any thing to feel out there?
AS you might be able to tell, I'm the type to look over his shoulder during the whole surgery, but smart enough to realize that might only be a hindrance. Calling all mechanics, "should I?"
Any and all info, in one post, might help others in my situation, so help me with a list if you can.
Thank you all,
Douglas

[kit]

Cant answer all of them but, I would leave the glow plugs and I would not worry about the exhaust system I think that will be fine as for the rest you are just going to have to suck it and see I am afraid.

[douglas]

Thanks for that, all advice appreciated, I know there is a wealth of knowledge out there. I'll value it all.
Sincerely,
Douglas

[HarryMann]

I know that list starts with stretch bolts.

Gasket + putting on the right way a round (has been known, once - a topic on here discusses where the tabs should be)


Cleaning block face up
Chasing the block threads out can be a good idea: cleaning grunge out the bottom of the thread holes; making sure they are not oil-filled and thus hydraulic the bolt; lightly lubricating the new bolts and draining them overnight (engine oil)
Correct torqueing and angle tightening procedure (maybe someone can remind us what that actually is for the KY)

A coolant system air block from the old head seems to have taken it past the point of no return, (cant' be sure though) how about coolant system check and water pump.

Worth back-flushing and definitely new coolant (8+8 litres). Don't mess about jacking up to bleed it, just be patient and bleed it properly static, and then again after a grille-off run to full temperature, checking once again after first decent drive (all vital signs OK, plus front bleed screw giving (warm) water straight away, no air).

Check rad fan(s) work (short the thermo switch on rad itself), also check fan(s) do come on when very hot, static for any length of time (is not be assured most 1600s and 1900s do), and often as soon as you start hill-climbing. Not sure whether 1700s shoudl or shouldn't, do or don't
But you do want a reliable and meaningful water temperature gauge working, the level light a wee bit less important, as you should be checking water level visually pretty well after any reasonable run (for a good while, anyway)

Complete oil change?

Of course, and filter, good drain.

One area that you really want confimed on startup, is the oil pressure, if mechanic has a screw in oil-pressure gauge.Look for JX type oil pressures, 0.75 bar min, hot idle; and at least 1 bar per 1000 rpm running when hot (so at least 60 psi, 4 bar at 4,000 cruising)

Glow plugs were relatively new, I think, can they be checked? Should I replace them automatically?

No, unless someones offering as set particularly cheaply

The previous owner had no relay/fuse on the fuse board for coolant level,the light never flashed, although the temp needle moved. I jumped the coolant level fuse plugs (#3 to#6) with a bit of wire,after mishap, as learned on this forum, and the light flashed.

A good idea to get sorted, by as above, visuals will do for now, if not overheating it shouldn't be using water (much, a little use is not uncommon)

Are these relays available still and should I get one? Why would it be missing, is this the previous owners idiocy for not telling me?

No idea...

Gaskets/seals on injection system, how to inspect?

You must put in (or he will) use new heat shields under the injectors and torque them properly. The glow plugs must be torqued properly as well (think about 15 lb-ft, but sealing collars should not be previously pinched)

Should I have a new timing belt, even though the old looks okay?

That's judgement, you either know or not when it was last changed. Some have new belt and automatically new tensioner etc.

Will injectors have been affected by this 'head trauma'?

No, probably not

Will anything else be whacked out by the removal and replacement?

Not necessarily, but exhaust manifold face (trueness) would be worth checking asap, and facing if warped (Wiki)
New exhaust gaskets and hopefully studs and special nuts

You should have checked the bores visually and if poss try to measure any lip or estinate bore-wear (so to gauge life left in that side of the engine) Obvious top ring bore step, an old ring can be used (gap changes), or bore gauges. A new ring can be used with the correct works manual to determine actual bore-size and in/out spec. Estimate glazing (often overheating)

What to look or listen for to see if timing is ok, and is there nothing short of another mechanic to check compression, or will I feel this instantly?

If it start and runs Ok, then timing is likely pretty close; however, it all has to be timed correctly, requiring the right tools. Sounds like he knows what he's doing.

During the 'warming in' period for his work - how should I proceed?

Running in? Don' they just have an on/off button, so... just don't thrash it for hours on end in high-temps straight out of the starting blocks

How he tightens the head is everything,right, so, should he and I have a clear protocol about when to tighten up the bolts after 1000 miles?

Some do, some don't (mine weren't on an AAZ and no problem, twice!) Think book says you do (500 miles..?)

Is this something I can manage down the road that far, myself?

Possibly, don't fret about it though now... get it running first

What oil should i insist on, and what coolant?

The corerct ones, he'll know...

My exhaust system laboured over the white plumes of smoke and dripped a strange mix of diesel and coolant, must this be cleaned out?

No, and its a messy job if you try If you do, drain it by upending it in several positions, and use petrol to wash it through (in a suitable place )

As well he towed it a short distance with chains, is there any thing to feel out there?

Doubt it

Good luck, a vital ingredient, plan ahead a bit...

Oh yes, injectors, check the return hoses are all in good condition. Don't buy rubbish replacements
New fuel filter (get that done now?

Make sure all the injector pipe braces are put back the way they were (stiffeners to stop vibration)

[douglas]

Thanks so much for spending the time on those really valuable posts. Please keep it coming, you are really helping me out here. It is so appreciated.
I wish I had the sense to tap into this forum when I was buying the bus, I might practically have left the rarefied air of the 1.7 diesel alone. Now I feel like I'm amongst comrades.
Harry(the Mann of the hour)Mann has suggested the coolant level relay/fuse isn't that important, I've seen comments that it's unavailable, and his advice makes great sense, but is it available????
I don't have the green bible in front of me now, for part #,but you all must know what we're referring to. My overheating needle level worked, my coolant level light didn't flash as it wasn't in the fuse board. Wish I could remember the position.
Please keep post -surgery advice coming,
gratefully,
Douglas
1990 transporter,westphalia conversion
1.7 diesel

[sarran1955]

Hello,

I am in central France, (between Jns 21 and 22 of the A 89 motorway)

After your bus is back on the road, you are welcome to come here for a weekend, so I can check the engine and torque settings for you.

I normally only touch Aircooled, but I have been known to make exceptions


PM me if you are interested, I look at the computer at about 7.30 evenings.

Cordialement,

[douglas]

Thanks for that ,I pm'd you, hoping that can happen.
Any more advice about a checklist - post cylinder head replacement surgery, most welcome.
We really want to nurse her back to health.
Thanks all,
Douglas

[pistachio]

sarran1955 will get you back on the road

[alewing]

Did this get resolved?