I wonder.. Hybrid petrol(lrp) - electric

[AdrianC]

The greenest cars on the market are all ultra aerodynamic very efficient diesels with stop-start tech etc.

The truly greenest vehicles are those which have extended lives-in-use, and which are repaired and reused, rather than recycled and made into new cars - and which have minimal fripperies, electronics and toys.

On that basis, a 20+yo van scores fairly highly...

[ELVIS]

How much energy goes into producing the electricty to charge the batteries at a 'top up' station or at home ?

If for example you get 30mpg in your vehicle at £6.xxp/gallon. How much would it cost to go the same 30miles by leccy?

How much would a full kit cost and how long would it take to recoup back?

If my crewie is 26yrs old, if i bought a new leccy car, how long would it take to even up carbon emmissions thingies ?(if you include everything including chainsaws that chop the wood that make pallets that dleiver parts to main factory, factory running costs , electricity , gas , mining/making raw materials etc etc.

If you then incorporate this into equivilent mpg on leccy how long will it take to even out carbon footprint?

Does aywhere give exact figures other than 'go electric or the world blows up' type arguements/points?


(anyway , i satnav'd my Gti conversion at 101 on sunday - unless your Kenwood mixer will match that you can ram it)

[AdrianC]

How much energy goes into producing the electricty to charge the batteries at a 'top up' station or at home ?

Bear in mind, too, the upgrading of the UK power generation and distribution network required for more than a trivial number of vehicles to go plug-in...

[Si_P]

The greenest cars on the market are all ultra aerodynamic very efficient diesels with stop-start tech etc.

The truly greenest vehicles are those which have extended lives-in-use, and which are repaired and reused, rather than recycled and made into new cars - and which have minimal fripperies, electronics and toys.

On that basis, a 20+yo van scores fairly highly...

I take your point on that.

Had a chortle to my self when considering the cue behind my 1.7 diesel van at traffic lights if the engine had to start each time I pulled off.

[ELVIS]

How much energy goes into producing the electricty to charge the batteries at a 'top up' station or at home ?

Bear in mind, too, the upgrading of the UK power generation and distribution network required for more than a trivial number of vehicles to go plug-in...

want there a feature on top gear about this aswell?

They worked out that if everyone drove spacker cars then service stations would need to be xxx times bigger and have xxx more pumps?

Imagine in the pikeys wiring cars up to streetlamps to avoid leccy charges ? at least it would cut down on light pollution

[toomanytoys]

Another point woth mentioning is that any new car will have to cover a minumum of 100k miles before whats coming out of the tailpipe has any influence over the cost of actually making it..... #

And I know there were a lot of cars that went to the scappers under the scrappage scheme that had done no where near that mileage...

WEven greenpeace did research in the US to find out what vehicle had the smallest environmental impact and IIRC it was summat like a Jeep cherokee... as it was durable and easily and cheaply serviced........

Buying a new "clean" car is onlt good for the gove (new car tax) and the manufacturing (pays wages and the gov gets tax again)..

New cars are disposable items.. with a 7 year life expectancy... ( and biuld quality in a lot of cases..)
We live in a throw away society... just go look on autotrader at 3 year old cars.. you would have to be mental to purchase a new car every 3 years.. losing 40-60% of the purchase price.... But each to there own, if keeping up with the jones's is that important... ..

[MrBeard]

You just cannot get something for nothing. Electric hybrids are better at massaging your conscience than saving the planet.

You know I totally hate that kind of psuedo science/logic. Correct you can't get something from nothing. However, since when has electric motors, hybrid or even solar power been something for nothing.
If I wanted to massage mu conscience I would rip out the entire engine and replace it with diesel TDi or full electric with plug-in. or just sell the campervan for a prius!

There are hundreds of ways to make a hybrid regain or just gain power for use with the petrol engine.

(time to spit my dummy out) - if you just want to bomb the idea start your own post! Constructive criticism only please!

[Si_P]

Hey hey was not trying to cause offence and I'm sorry if I have (I hope your dummy did not land anywhere too mucky).

I think pursuing efficiency savings with a T25 would be a very cool and interesting thing I simply don't think a prius style hybreed is the best way forward.

I would love to see a project starting with a typical van and seeing how much can be saved on fuel by changing tyres, grills, lightening etc. and possibly the introduction of electric motors to assist in stop start driving (again I do like regenerative breaks etc. as an elegant way to capture wasted energy) and stop start tech. Hell a little assistance from an electric motor up hill would be more than welcome with my sluggish diesel.....

My problem with the Prius and others is simply that all the people I know who have them do not get close to the stated economy and they are driving normally. I am forever awaiting the battery tech to develop electric vehicles with a good range.

[jimmypatch]

WEven greenpeace did research in the US to find out what vehicle had the smallest environmental impact and IIRC it was summat like a Jeep cherokee... as it was durable and easily and cheaply serviced........

It was the jeep wrangler. it is supposed to have the lowest whole life cost due to the fact it has not changed for years. so it takes into account things like the tooling machines that build it. tail pipe emissions are a small part of whole life carbon foot print.

[MrBeard]

I agree with Greenpeace etc, I remember when several organisations did a similar test, and always it was not to destroy old cars but to re-use, recycle and maintain was better than a new super fuel efficient.

We all have a recycled vehicle, so lets gets the best out of it that we can.
Good tires, properly inflated grills etc. and THEN lets squeeze so more out of it.
Part of the issue with car like the Prius IS the small engine for engine bay space. means it has no grunt for average person driving and overtaking. unlike lab driving which is a rolling road.
I maintain that have your engine as the MAIN and the electrics as a boost to reduce petrol requirements, that would give the most realistic useful effect, rather than shrinkng the engine and making the electric do the hard work and petrol as boost. while it might make sense scientifically (although I am not so sure) ir does not fit with the way people drive as we have been trained to drive a car that responds like a ICE.

anyway. I shall find some motors and plug them in/ - all suggestions welcome!

[MrBeard]

Found a really useful suggestion:
DC motor connected using a band to the engine like a supercharger.
It's the easiest way to add the motors power, apparently.
The biggest difficulty is when you drop the clutch, as the motor is still connected. but a simple switch on the back of the clutch pedal should fix that.

Some extra energy from regenerative braking and solar panels on the roof, bingo!

[Si_P]

Regenerative breaking essentially utilises electric motors located at the axles in any case see link.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-part ... aking6.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So you would essentially have these motors in place why not use them at this location?

I guess you'd need a fairly smart drive computer to control motors where they bypass your differential to ensure they do not destabalise the drive in poor conditions.

[Si_P]

Having read further on regen breaks they are complex beasts.

If you can get these puppies on your camper a 4 page spread in camper and bus must be a given...

[MrBeard]

I haven't read the link yet (hopefully tonight), but I would have thought that you could just use them to generate power direct to a battery, no complicated computery stuff, just another way to gain power for the DC motor.
Kick me If I'm wrong on that, I will too after I read up on them.

[MrBeard]

Wow! regen braking is messy. No simple plug it in and away you go..
I am not sure I fancy messing with the braking controls like that. not unless you can find a dongle that will do the braking switching between normal and regen motors.