Subaru Syncro Caravelle, post conversion

[rollercoaster]

Well, happy with the basic conversion, 2.2 Subaru into '89 Syncro Caravelle that was a WBX.
Power and economy with so far reliability is just what I needed.
RJES loom and most conversion parts, Small Car sump, fitted by Simon Davey. Exhaust by Long Life, of Carshalton.

Some nit picking stuff to sort out still thats quite important and maybe theres some helpful tips to some of my questions.

How do I get the tachometer working again?

and the power steering pump is always noisy, maybe its got air in or something?

and I would love the motor to sound more relaxed at tick-over, Simon fitted an RJES speed sensor and said it would "re-map" itself eventually, I feel like its a bit better, but having no idea what a Subaru runs like anyway, am I hoping for too much, or is there a way to adjust or re-map this?

and the entire exhaust system hangs rigidly on the manifold bolts, they seem to think its strong enough to take it. I returned and they fitted another mount to hold the silencer off the power steering pump but thats a rubber one so it still basically stresses the manifold bolts, I worry about bumping the exhaust, as its a Syncro. Perhaps I will take some photos so show what I mean if this description is not clear enough.

I would also appreciate any other tips from post Subaru conversion problems that showed up, so as to pre-empt them.

Thanks for your help.

[16vmini]

i cant help to much , as i have only just taken my motor out of the subuaru SVX ,

but having a exhaust solild mounted from the manifold sounds bad , i would have expected some kind of flexi joint in there somewhere
and then the rest of the exhaust hanging on mounts ( well thats how i will be doing mine )

Matt

[syncroandy]

Assuming tacho has been connected to the correct ECU output (!), it may need the 'tacho mod' to work with the Subaru rpm signal. The details are in the SubaruVanagon files section.

Problems with the engine returning to idle speed (700rpm) too slowly may be due to the ECU input 'neutral position switch'. If your engine was from a manual, the NPS input should be left floating (not grounded). Auto ECU's may differ, but I've not had my hands on one so don't know for sure.

The RJES muffler is supposed to be supported via extension brackets off the sump I think, not just hanging off the manifold..

Did you have the head gaskets done ?

PS. Sorry, just seen your exhaust isn't RJES. Yes I agree the design doesn't seem right to me. The problem with RJES engine mounting is it provides no suitable mounting point at the rear of the engine unlike the Smallcar system which replicates the VW way of supporting the muffler. However arguably the RJES mounting is closer to the Subaru pattern therefore may result in a smoother engine.

I think if using RJES engine mount I would not use SC sump but a cut/shut steel one with muffler bracket welded to the back.

Pics of SC setup:

[rollercoaster]

I'm a bit slow to understand this and trawling the internet to see what you mean,
found this great instruction on how to modify the tacho:

http://www.weidefamily.net/vanagon/Pend ... achMod.doc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Found it on an interesting explanatory document, part of someone else's conversion conversation:

http://weidefamily.net/VANAGON/Pending_ ... /notes.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I dont understand wiring much at all though I did recently manage to diagnose my headlight switch and replace it,
but that might have been luck as much as anything..

I will try to understand the ECU input 'neutral position switch' but I'm not exactly hopeful.
Really appreciate the help though.

Think the head gaskets were done but cant remember what Simon said about that..

The exhaust looks like this:






You can see theres a whole lot hanging out the back and until I went back it was all just on the bolts you can see between the exhaust manifold and the engine, nothing else. My worry about this is that despite Simon and Longlifes claims that it was plenty strong enough, that would obviously not include any bumps, which seem quite likely..
Now I went back last week and they added the bracket welded to the silencer, that bolts it to the power steering pump mount.
However as this is a rubber mount and there are no flexes in the system I cant see what help that is, it could have been helpful if it had been a solid mount perhaps.

Must say at this point it is all way too involved for me and when I asked for the conversion to be done I did ask for a complete (and de-bugged) job, initially specifying extra work on top on other parts of the van, and even including a request for some good mileage to be put on it and everything checked and tightened, and to find myself struggling not only with trying to understand what needs doing to complete it, as well as making up the engine protection etc, is a bit of a strain on me brain.

[Eta-Beta]

Hi,,, just completed my conversion on a autobox from a auto subaru,,,, ive had most my parts from RJES apart from zorst and adapter plate,which are TSR,,, alls turned out excellent ,fired up 3rd try and not a drip in sight, only one small problem which im baffled with is the rev counter,,, RJES did the mod and calibrated it for me upto 7000 rpm,,, now for some reason the needle is not reading at the right position on the scale,,, says tickover about 200 instead of 800 and at approx 2000rpm reads 1000 on dial, its all below where it should be, any ideas chaps ?? heres a pic, the zorst tail pipe looked naff, so i modiffied it

[CycloneMike]

With regard to the idle speed you need to check the Idle Air Control Valve is operating. When the throttle is closed this should switch on. If you have an early ej22 you may have a 4 wire Throttle Position Sensor which has a switch in it and needs to be correctly set to tell the ECU that the engine is at idle. No amount of remap will help idle if this is not working.

[Eta-Beta]

Na , EJ25 i have,,, thanx anyway -just tonight sorted it, needed a tweek on calibration screw, duno why it was reading out on my guage,, was aparently set up correctly on rjes system,, now reads 1100 on start up and drops to 600 rpm , which is correct,, gona just test at RJES when i get chance. i would like to get a digital stand alone guage if they are available.

[CycloneMike]

That's good news but my reply was aimed at the question in the first post who had the ej22 with a fast idle

[rollercoaster]

Hmmm,
Neutral position switch, and now a Four Wire Throttle Position Sensor, and RJES does testing too?
I dont think I could work this out by myself...
Need to find someone who can check this out for me.

[syncroandy]

IMO, there are enough wiring and ECU code variations year by year on the Subaru which means there's always a chance some tweaking will be needed during an installation. Regarding the possibility of a throttle switch fault, thats obviously outside the responsibility of the conversion kit supplier, but could be picked up during the install. Both these can easily be checked with a basic multimeter, so long as a wiring diagram for the engine is to hand. Maybe ask Simon ?

[RJES]

T25 Rev counter connection / calibration:
Eta-beta, as I've mentioned a few times now, if you're not happy with your rev counter, send it back and I will find out what is wrong and I will fix it if necessary.
To complete the story with the rev counter in question here, I calibrated it to read 7000 rpm at the usual 6000 rpm location (like a Jetta gauge face), and the owner was having a new gauge face installed. Calibration adjusts only the scaling - i.e. how many rpm the gauge shows for a given change in input frequency. There is no adjustment an offset (whether the gauge is out by a constant amount across the whole range or not). On every rev counter I calibrate I set it so that it reads correctly at full scale. The VDO gauge mechanisms have a noticeable amount of hysteresis due to friction, so I set them so that they give the best compromoise reading at full scale as the revs rise and fall. I then check the reading at at least one other reading, typically 50% of full scale to make sure that looks OK too. I use a digital signal generator, so there is no doubt about the accuracy of the calibration signal. Obviously it is possible that I set the frequency incorrectly, but I doubt it.
While fitting the new gauge face Eta-beta has removed the needle, and admits that he doesn't know for sure that it has gone back on in just the right place. If it is not in the right place this could have introduced an offset, so the gauge reads out across the whole rev range by a certain amount. He has then adjusted the calibration screw so the gauge reads 600 rpm at a hot tick over. Calibrating any moving coil meter at 10% of its full scall deflection is not a good idea, and something which I advised against doing. Any error ar 600 rpm will be 10 times as big at 6000 rpm. I'd say the hysteresis error of these gauges is typically +/- 200 rpm at full scale. Some are maybe as much as +/- 300 rpm. They are not a precision instrument. Calibraing them is a matter of finding the best compromise when different speed are approached with rising and falling rpm.

I have never modified rev counters using the modifications to the VW driver circuit as linked to on US forums. The VW driver circuit relies on a chip which was available in 1968 (in 911's), is long since obsolete, and is reletively easily damaged. I have always replaced the driver circuit wit an entirely new one, until recently. For the 4 cylinders I now biuld a rev counter driver into the engine management harness so the standard petrol VW rev counters just work. This means the rev counter does not need recalibrating, and the dreaded flexible circuit board does not need disturbing, so is a better solution all around. This is an option on any harness I do, not a standard feature. Eta-beta's was one of the last rev counters I swapped the driver circuit in for a 4 cylinder conversion. Swapping the driver will always be necessary for 6 cylinder conversions as the VW rev counter driver does not have enough adjustment to work on a 6 cylinder.

Subaru tickover performance
Assuming they have been wired correctly, all the components work correctly, and nothing such as throttle stop screws has ever been fiddled with, Subaru engines should tick over at 800 rpm when cold, then this should drop to 600 rpm as they come off the cold start circuit. You can very clearly hear the revs suddenly drop if you listen to one idling until it is warm. If they start warm, the cold start circuit won't be activated, so they will idle at 600 rpm straight away.
A common bodge by people who don't understand engine management is toi turn the throttle stop screw to try to change the idle rpm. This is incorrect, and will restrict or prevent the idle speed control valve's control over tickover rpm. The throttle stop screw is only there to prevent the throttle plate jamming in the throttle body. Within reason, it should be set so the throttle is as close as possible to being fully closed, so no air flows through it when you lift your foot off the throttle.
The only adaptive mapping in most naturally aspirated Subaru ECU's is ignition timing. As far as I know they are all preset to idle at one speed when cold, and at another when warm. If yours isn't doing this, then it isn't working correctly. This will not be to do with the speed sensor. Rollercoaster - if you have questions about how your engine management should behave, try asking me (directly, not via forums). I probably know more about Subaru's naturally aspirated engine management systems than most people outside of Subaru in the UK, and will discuss most aspects of it with my harness customers.

NPS Wires:
There are some aspects of how I wire my conversion harnesses, and which bits apply to which harnesses and ECU's which I will not discuss with anyone anymore. I used to discuss everything on forums, but repeated attempts (some successful) to extract info from me which I thin find being used by competitors has forced me to "take (a very tiny amount of) my work back underground, to stop it falling into the wrong hands". This is an unfortunate case of a few spoiling things for everyone else, but I have to protect my investment. This includes some aspects of NPS wiring.
If you are an existing harness customer of mine, and are unhappy with the way your engine returns to idle on overrun or when you dip the clutch, please phone me with your ECU part number to discuss it.


Exhaust Design:
There is a lot more to getting exhausts to survive without either shaking themselves to pieces or cracking through thermal expansion than a lot of people realise. In fact, they are notoriously difficult to get right for anyone without an OEM's development budget. It's a bit more involved than welding pipes together and hoping for the best. This is especially difficult with stainless as it behaves rather differently to mild steel. My exhausts are fully supported by a substantial bracket which bolts to the engine in 4 places and ensures that the bolting arrangement does not pre stress any exhaust parts. They are designed to absorb the thermal expansion without stressing the welded joints. A lot of thought and development went into them, including advice from stress analyst who specialised in exhausts at my previous employers, and advice fromm both friends who work on the OEM exhaust industry and the fabricators wom manufacture some of the parts for me. Like all of my products they were tested pretty thoroughly (for about a year) before ever selling any, and many have now neen in service for up to four years. None have ever cracked to my knowledge.
I have never heard of the exhaust company you mention. However, there are other franchised 'stainless exhaust specialists' who I have zero confidence in. It seems to me that anyone can become a franchisee, after which they get a pipe bender, and a load of exhaust components and a welder, and are then some how a 'specialist'. Some of the systems I have seen which have been produced by such companies suggest that this is all the franchisee's get, as they clearly have no understanding of any aspects of fatigue, thermal expansion or exhaust design in general. One was a T25 Subaru conversion which a customer paid such a 'specialist' something like£900 to make. After a year or so he still ended up buying one of my exhausts. Another was a system removed by a proper specialist, which they kept as an example of how bad the work from some companies can be. I'm not saying that I know everything about the design of exhausts - far from it, but I can assure you that an awful lot of effort went into the development of my exhausts, with advice from real exhaust design specialists, and so far it's paid off.

The 'engineered solutions' part of my companies name is intended to imply that the products we manufacture have been engineered as closely as is practical for small scale production to how an OEM would do so. Unfortunetaly there are far too many products in the VW modifying industry which have clearly been developed by people who think they are engineers because they can weld or operate a machining centre. Some products I have seen churned out this way over the years include welded dropped spindles with big cracks in the welds before they have ever been used, and laughably weak narrowed suspension beams for air cooled VW's. This would amuse me lots if such junk was not almost always very safety critical parts. I really don't know how people dare to sell this stuff. They wouldn't if they had any concept of product liability. Man plus welder / machine shope does not necessarily equal engineer.

[Fin]

That my friend is a lovely looking thing...

[rollercoaster]

Hi Richard, thanks for the thoughts,
I certainly have no complaints about your parts or your service, and will definitely take you up on talking to you directly first if anything comes up.

With regard to your rev counter, I would like to get you to sort mine out please, then I will be able to see if my motor is ticking over correctly or not. It is using a RJES Loom which you built for it so there may be a rev counter driver in the engine management harness as you say, I wouldn't know, Simon has not been able to get it working. I mistakenly thought that the speed sensor he just fitted was going to sort the tick-over and the tacho in one, but maybe it had nothing to do with either as I can see now it fits on the speedo. (quick look at your website)

With regards to the tick-over, when I complained to Simon (who converted it for me) that the tick-over was always too high he did say to me to adjust the throttle stop screws! Well there was no adjustment as it was fully closed so I didn't do that, but possibly not such clever advice then, and we will have to see what the problem is really, I would love to take it somewhere for a second opinion. I couldn't say if it has all been wired correctly and the components work. I will take you up on this conversation in person offer thanks, and will PM you with my phone number so you could call me at a good time for you.

Regarding the Exhaust, I would happily have paid for one of your exhausts, especially as the one Simon had fitted by Longlife (in Carshalton) has had no thought for how to refit the underbody protection, or indeed what might happen if it got bumped. I cannot see any reference to your exhaust systems on your website, but some reference on the RJES forum (which I just joined) is it a new development? Does it fit with the protection on Syncros? Do you think it could take some knocks?

The other thing is the noisy power steering, when I returned it to Simon he said it was noticeably quieter, (not that I noticed), and said it was settling down. I dont like it at all. It just doesn't seem right to end up with a van that whines when you turn the wheel. If no one has any ideas about this here I can make my first post over at the RJES forums on this subject..

Andy. I did ask Simon, and as I said he told me to adjust the screws. Further I made the long round trip to get him to look at it, booked in, and either he doesn't understand, doesn't care, or I am totally wrong about all this and the van is running fine. He seemed to think that fitting the speed sensor would sort it out. I think I need to find someone, preferably a bit closer to home, that does understand and is willing to get their multimeter out. I bought a multimeter recently but dont know where to start looking for the Neutral position switch, and Four Wire Throttle Position Sensor..

[RJES]

Sorry rollercoaster, I sent you a pm before I saw you'd replied on here.

You're right, the speed sensor has nothing at all to do with the tacho, and on the very large majority of ECU's, nothing to do with the idle either.

Tacho drivers, whether the old type which fits in to the rev counter itself, or the new type which is built in to the harness, have always been optional on my harnesses.

I have no experience of plumbing Subaru pumps to VW steering racks, as I don't use hydraulic power steering. I do know that whilst it usually works no problem, it is not unheard of for the hydraulics to be noisier.

My exhausts are not on my web site, but for no reason other than because I never get time to update the site. They have been available for a few years, and are tucked up as 'out of the way' as is practical. You won't fit standard VW under run bars around any Subaru conversion because they are not long enough, and will interfere with the engine mounting arrangement. My exhausts are designed to be tucked up above the considerably heavier duty under run bars which I designed, which were also to feature optional more thorough protection of the exhaust. Pretty much like a roll cage inderneath, with thick steel plates filling the gaps between the tubes. However, I never made any when I saw the price of just the laser cut steel plates and tubes needed to make them, as I doubt I'd ever have sold enough to pay back the development and fixture costs. The design is extremely heavy duty compared to the VW design, and looks cool, but I very much doubt that they are a viable product. I just don't think there is a big enough market for them. I may revisit them in the future if people persuade me there is a market for them, but the design also depends on something else, and making the fixtures is a job I'll definitely only do once, if at all.

I don't think you'll find any exhaust which is 'designed to take some knocks'. I've never seen an exhaust which is designed to do anything more than it's job. It's difficult enough to make exhausts (especally stainless ones) survive as it is. If the design is good, it'll be tucked up out of the way, and if you want to use it for something extreme you may need to protect it, but try to find out whether any exhaust will 'take some knocks', and I suspect you'll be disappointed.

Not all of the engine management info people have given you in this thread is correct. For starters, nobody had asked what kind of engine management system you have. It's great that people are trying to help, but how many of them have experience with the all of the 30+ different engine management systems fitted to the common models of naturally aspirated European Subaru engines which are used in VW conversions? Web forums are great, but some are greater than others, and all contain misinformation, to vastly varying extents. 8090 and vwkd are usually frequented by people who genuinely want to help and have at least a bit of an idea about what they are talking about in my experience. However, a certain very big forum seems to be mostly frequented by armchair experts who apparently have more time to spend talking about things they don't understand / haven't done than they do to get and understand / do them. You need to be very selective about which bits you believe, especially when it is something very technical being discussed, as only a tiny minority of the users will have a detailed understanding.

I very much doubt that Simon doesn't care about what is happening with your conversion. He's usually more obsessed with the little details than me.

I'd like to spend as much time as I used to on all the forums trying to help people with problems, but I work all hours, 6 or 7 days a week, and have not done any work on some of my own personal VW projects for a year or more. I'm lucky if I get to look at any of the forums once a month lately.
If anyone has a problem relating to any of my products, ask me rather than trying to pick out the good from the inevitable misinformation on forums. This will save you considerable time and effort. I guarantee that nobody understands my products better than I do.

[spannerboy]

Any parts or things you are not happy about just drop it back and leave it with me,I will sort it out free of charge.