Type 4 engine into a T25?

[fall-apart-dave]

Has anyone done it before? I have, if I want it, a 1700 motor from a Porsche 914 on twin IDF carbs, which is far far better than the 1600 CT lump in there just now. More torque, more power, and scope for BIG power should I want it (I don't!).

But has anyone actually done this swap before?

The clutch is identical, the spigot bearing is identical, the block aint that much longer, the cooling is the same, alternator is on the same side... But I would appreciate any pointers anyone could perhaps give?

Thanks!

[toomanytoys]

I have... exactly what you are talking about.. 1.7 411 engine into a CT engined bus..
Is the engine fro a 914 really? or is it from a 411?? (engine codes are the same so adds confusion, whats it been fitted to?)
Its a lot more work than you think.. From memory
The cooling system is similar, but you cant use the CT stuff.. (or CU for that matter) there are subtle differences.. use the original type 4 cooling..
you have to make up a lot of sheet metal to attach to the engine bay to meet the type 4 tinware.. so you can install a seal.. YES YOU MUST... else it will cook the engine...
The engine mount bar is different and you have to make a brace for the top ofthe gearbox to stop the whole thing flopping about on the type 4 engine bar..
Its quite a bit of hassle in reality.. but does fit and coz its a free reving engine it doesnt mind the lower gearing of the CT box..

Would be easier to fit a 2L CU engine and box from a 2L T25 in my opinion..

Sent you a pm..

[gsmoke]

Hi Dave,
Vw have already put a Type 4 engine into a T25. The 2.0 cu code engine is a type 4.
Externally it's identical to your porsche engine except for the engine breather on the top and the shape of the exhaust ports.
The main hassles with your transplant would be sorting a set of tinware and if using heat exchangers, making them marry to the t25 heater control pods.

Trouble is, 914 heads have larger valves and have a big reputation for failing when used in a bus.
If it were me, I would sell the 914 engine (the heads go for big bucks), and buy a 2 litre engine. That would give you more torque and power.
You'll find loads of threads on here about this.
A good place for info on Type 4 engines is here http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good luck.

[gsmoke]

Ha toomanytoys, you just beat me to it!

[fall-apart-dave]

Cheers for the info guys!

Well, the engine was out of a Buggy, went into a Baja for a while but was never used in anger, and then stood. The research I did all said 914 motor, it has finned heads, the correct code, and I am told used to be fuel injected before that packed up and the previous owner slapped carbs onto it. Doesn't conclusively prove it, but it's as strong evidence as you'll get without pulling it from a 914 yourself.

So, sounds like the type 4 engine is more hassle than worth for the gains... I shall have to rethink this one then Maybe make the engine I have more capable perhaps..? Hmm...

[fall-apart-dave]

Wondering about building the engine into something larger, designed to cope with the weight of the van... What do we think?

[toomanytoys]

1.7 "W" engine code, was fitted to 914 and 411..
Only the 2L type engine fitted to the 914 has bigger valves better intake and produces an easy 100bhp out of the crate.. But heads can crack, not good in a bus, too much heat..

Yes, easiest swap is a 2L CU with gearbox..
Yes you can build a bigger type 4 (not much) engine for the T25, but it costs.. its not advisable to fit big bore barrels, they cant deal witht he heat..
Better to biuld a stock engine with some quality parts, good quality head refurb (new seats fitted) better cam.. slightly raised compression and a pair of twin 40's or similar.. paired with a nice free flowing header etc..
What you want is torque, NOT BHP..

But how much are you willing/expecting to spend?? under £1.5k.. forget it.. look for a good used 2L CU..

[fall-apart-dave]

Nice one cheers for that chap.

There's a dude near me does biodiesel at under 70p a litre, worth looking at oil burners I think...

[toomanytoys]

Lot of work going from Aircooled to watercooled dwheezil too...

good used 2L CU and gearbox and LPG conversion is the easiest route... IMHO..

[fall-apart-dave]

Lot of work going from Aircooled to watercooled dwheezil too...

good used 2L CU and gearbox and LPG conversion is the easiest route... IMHO..

Yes I know. I just dunno what to do! Rebuilding the type 4 engine is a good option as any I suppose into a 2 litre, selling the (rather valuable) 1700 heads, keeping the 40IDF carbs and then maybe LPG... Maybe... I have an LPG kit but that's for my GMG V8 van really... Hm...

[toomanytoys]

Taking the 1.7 and turning it into a 2L will cost and is quite a bit of work itself.. then you really need to use all the CU parts so the cooling system fits.. a lot easier to start with a complete 2L CU and rebiuld that..
1.7 heads are not worth much different (as far as I am aware) than any other 1.8/2L heads.. they need work to make them fit 1.8/2L engines.., they do have better squish areas though..
the only ones that seem to fetch lots of money are the "porsche" 2L heads (2L 914 only, have 3 studs for the inlet manifolds) but finding a good set is rare now..

As already said in your other thread, going to anything else is a lot of work and if you cant do most of it yourself then WILL cost.... if its cheap, it wont work very well and you'll be peed off....

2L CU + box.. then LPG it if you really need to use it more than a weekend/holiday bus..

[fall-apart-dave]

Yes you are of course absolutely right

Now the search is on to find an engine. Out of interest, is the CT gearbox no good for this?

[toomanytoys]

I doubt it.. (that I am absolutly right that is)
just depends on how much work you really want to and how deep the pockets are.... oh and how much heart ache it gives.. But dont let us stop you...

CT box will work.. but its low gearing means that the 2L will be screaming at 4000 to hit 60mph (CT flat out speed).. where it ought to be pulling 3000 ish (IIRC)... it will accelerate well mind...

[faggie]

i used to run a 1800 motor with the factory big valves in my van with a few simple mods it made respectable power and would rev to 6500, it was a total different animal to the gutless cu it replaced the only problem is finding the above engine as they were only made for just over a year, it never missed a beat in all the years i had it but the fuel consumption was crap

[fall-apart-dave]

Thanks guys