Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems (lots of pics)

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Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems (lots of pics)

Post by Llamapup »

Hello All

I'm having multiple problems with my Elextrolux 184 RM three way fridge. Its fitted to a 1989 Westfalia pop top.

1) The buttons that select gas, main battery (as shown in the pic below) tend to stick quite a bit making changing from one power source to annother quite tricky. Can the switches be replaced? Works fine on mains, but can't get the switch to select on battery mode. Anyone else have this sort of problem with the switches? Any clue on how to fix them?
Image

2) Fridge lights on gas mode and gets cool, but never gets cold like it does on the mains. I can feel warm exhaust gas coming out of vent on the side of the van. I'm guessing a good clean of the jet might do it. I saw a youtube video link on here showing how to clean the gas assymbly. I watched it and it looked pretty useful. Now I can't find the link again. Can anyone help me with this link? Any suggestions on how to get things going again in gas mode?

I suppose if all else fails I am prepared to pay someone to fix my fridge, but who fixes 3-way fridges. Where would I even begin to look. I live in Leeds by the way.

Thanks

Chris
Last edited by Llamapup on 06 Sep 2009, 18:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Mocki
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by Mocki »

If its cooling ok on mains, its pretty certain that the cooling system is working, so you are looking at a gas problem, which means a flame problem.

The drawing below represents a common gas system. The components are drawn for easy understanding and not mechanical accuracy. Although various brands and models place their components and modify their components in vastly different ways, the drawing below represents all standard refrigerator (non-electronic) propane systems with the exception of a few older ones that used the Klixon valve and the Teddington burner. The Klixon valve and Teddington burner were different safety mechanisms, otherwise the propane systems of those refrigerators worked the same.

Image

Propane at the correct pressure (11" water column) passes through the gas valve and the gas filter (optional) to the thermostat. Correct input pressure is critical. If the input pressure is not correct, the resulting flame at the other end of the propane system will not be correct. If you have any doubts about the gas pressure, buying a new LP regulator for your propane tank may be the simplest solution.

Thermostat. The gas thermostat controls the gas pressure to the orifice and therefore the size of the flame at the burner. By using a capillary tube (sensor) mounted in the lower box of the refrigerator, the thermostat directs the gas flow through two different paths, depending on whether or not the refrigerator has reached the desired temperature. One path allows full gas pressure through to the orifice for high flame and cooling, while the other path reduces the pressure creating a low flame. The low flame should be sufficient enough to stay lit and to power the safety mechanism, yet low enough not to generate cooling from the cooling unit.

The propane passes from the thermostat through to the safety valve. The safety valve does not have to be placed after the thermostat; it just has to be in-line in the propane system so that it can shut off the propane flow if necessary. As partially inferred from the last sentence, the purpose of the safety valve is to shut off the flow of propane if the flame is extinguished for any reason.

The safety valve contains an electromagnet which holds a plunger open to allow gas flow. The thermocouple generates millivolts when heated by the gas flame and activates the electromagnet. As long as the flame stays lit and the thermocouple generates millivolts, the safety valve will stay open. If the flame goes out for some reason, the thermocouple will cool and quit generating millivolts. The electromagnet will then de-energize and the plunger will snap shut, cutting off the gas flow. After the safety valve, the propane passes through the optional test block to the orifice. The test block is an in-line piece that contains a plugged 1/8" fpt connection for testing. When testing the gas pressure to the burner, the plug is removed from the test block, an adapter is inserted, and a manometer is connected to the adapter.

Orifice. The gas orifice is a fitting with a very precise, small hole at the end of it and is the heart of the propane system. If it weren't for the need for safety and the need to control the temperature of the refrigerator, a gas line straight to the orifice could be the entire propane system up to this point. The size of the orifice coupled with the correct gas pressure (11" water column) passing through it set the BTU output of the flame. If the orifice is dirty or, even worse, enlarged, the flame will not be correct.

Gas leaving the orifice shoots pass the air holes in the burner, picking up air for a mixture, and exits at the burner head. Here, once ignited by an ignition device or match, it should burn steadily as a vibrant, blue flame.

Above the burner, inside the chimney, is a hidden and little known component called the baffle. Many people who stumble upon it think it is a chimney cleaner. The baffle is a metal spiral device that hangs at a certain point in the chimney. Its purpose is to slow the heat rise from the flame and to concentrate that heat on an area of the cooling unit boiler system. The baffle is usually not a problem, unless a situation has occurred where the baffle was removed and may not have been replaced, such as in the changing of a cooling unit. A missing baffle will cause intermittent cooling problems on the gas side.

Troubleshooting

Usually the best way to troubleshoot the propane system is by using a manometer. A manometer is a gauge that measures gas pressure, but unfortunately most people don't have one, which means they're always working somewhat in the dark, but a lot of problems can be solved by logic and the process of elimination

All gas problems, except for leaks or a blocked chimney, show up in the burner flame. Either the burner is not putting out enough BTUs or is putting out too many BTUs for the situation. Although we've used the term BTU loosely in this section, most mortals will never be able to measure the BTUs of the flame. Just think of BTUs as "the heat output".

Inadequate or No Cooling. If the gas problem is inadequate or no cooling, and electricity is available, always test the refrigerator on electricity to eliminate the cooling unit and venting as possible problems. In other words, if the refrigerator works good on electricity, the cooling unit is good and you can concentrate on the gas problem.

Assuming the cooling unit is good and its requirements are met, the baffle is in place, and the chimney is unobstructed, poor cooling on the gas side is an incorrect flame. That simple. The most common incorrect flame is one that is too small, which is usually caused by a dirty orifice and/or burner. Remove the orifice from the burner assembly and clean it with air pressure or by soaking it in alcohol or paint thinner. DO NOT poke something like a wire through the orifice. This could easily enlarge or ruin the orifice. An enlarged orifice will put out too much heat and eventually damage the cooling unit. If there is sign of sooting or loose rust build up on the burner, blowing air pressure up the chimney and onto the burner area will clean them (protect your eyes when doing this). Don't let any loose particles blow into any open gas connections.

If, after cleaning the orifice, the problem is not solved, the orifice is still not eliminated as a possible suspect. Oil from the propane tank can accumulate around the hole of the orifice attracting dirt and making it very difficult to clean. This is a point where a manometer would come in handy. If you knew for sure that the gas pressure was correct to the orifice, you would know that the orifice is still the problem. Since you're probably working without a manometer, you'll need to make a decision. First, check out the thermostat and filter sections, then, after eliminating those two items as suspects, make a gut decision as to whether or not you want to replace the main LP gas regulator to insure proper input gas pressure or want to replace the orifice. Replace one, test the refrigerator, then replace the other if the first replacement didn't solve the problem. When working without a manometer, this is the logical way to proceed.
A bad thermostat (usually one stuck in by-pass mode) will also cause no cooling.

shamelessly copied from http://www.rvmobile.com/tech/Trouble/gassys.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by Grun »

Chris,
Here is another link (in addition to Mocki's) which is more westy specific.

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 0#p7305160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mike
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by Llamapup »

Thanks for the info guys. Some of that was pretty helpful.

Okay so I have made some progress in fixing the fridge.

I have managed to get to the burner orifice which was pretty well clogged up. I have cleaned out the hole of the orifice with some terps and compressed air. So once I put the fridge back together I would imagine that it works on gas again. I'll have to wait and see though as there is still one problem to fix.

The switch that enable you to change between the various modes of power delivery has perished. The plastic inside the switch in burnt and has crumbled. I'll need to find a replacement. Any suggestion?

Here are some pick of the broken switch:

Image

Image

Image


Thanks

Chris
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by Llamapup »

What do you all reckon? Is there somewhere I can get a replacement switch? I have spent a fair bit of time searching the web with no luck.

If I did need to wire up a replacement switch are there any suggestions from all you sparkies out there? What sort of swtich would I be looking for?

I have next weekend to fix my fridge before I go on a long trip so I'm keen to order my parts on Monday.

Thanks

Chris
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by Mocki »

cant help much on the switch, but people such as estfailure, and maybe NWvw or possibly billy739 from here?

its only a three bank switch, linked so only one can be on at once, maybe maplins or somewhere will have a temp simular array.....

you could maybe use three seperate switches, but you would have to be extra carefull to cancell the one before when you switched over....
Steve
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by Llamapup »

Thanks Mocki

I was thinking about using 3 switches, but too am worried about making sure that only one power source is selected at a time.

I found this on ebay though: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

That seems to be the right type of switch, but I'm not sure how many amps I need. This switch is £22 for 16 AMPS. There is a 30 AMP switch as well but its about £40.

Any comments on how many AMPS I need to cater for?

Thanks

Chris
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by Mocki »

the fridge will only need 10amps max anyway, so 16amp will be plenty......

bit expensive for a temp fix,just be sure it does indeed do the same as the one you are replacing ......
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by Grun »

Am I missing something? Surely the switches do very little.

There are two separate heater elements for the fridge, one 12 volt, which is normally fed via a relay and should only be live when the engine is running and the alternator charging.

The other heater (230 volt) should only be live via a hook up (and could be wired to a switched mains socket within the van). The wiring for the two circuits is completely independant.

The gas switch, I assume, is only for the ignitor and therefore needs a switch to fire it.

It would really make no difference if both the 12 volt and the 230 volt were live at the same time, for instance if running the engine while static and connected to the hook up, (except that the 12 volt heater is not controlled by a thermostat) but this would only be a very odd thing to do for more than a few minutes I would have thought.

Mike
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by Llamapup »

Mike

I'm sure you are correct in what you say. Perhaps my caution was just born from the presumption that I should attempt to maintain what the that the original designers had intended and theirby keeping the various power sources sepparate on switches that cancel the other functions.

Regardless though the switch I have is knackerd, so I need to replace it with something.

I'm not really looking for a temporary fix with a new switch. I doubt I'll be able to get a replacement switch to match. The original Electrolux switches seem poorly designed. I'm sure they are the first thing to break.

Perhaps a push button switch like the ones on this page would work.

http://www.surplussales.com/switches/SWPushB-2.html

Thanks

Chris
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by shovelhead »

Im having the same problem in that the fridge isnt very efficient on gas. I took it out and the chimney thing isnt actually attached to the burner tube? It just lays over the pipe. Will this make a difference?
Nothing this expensive should be this slow.......

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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by Llamapup »

shovelhead wrote:the chimney thing isnt actually attached to the burner tube? It just lays over the pipe. Will this make a difference?

Probably. I suspect if they don't have a good seal you may not be getting enough heat to the heat exchanger. You don't say what kind of fridge you have, but if its like mine then your burner and chimney should fit together pretty snug. Mine has a screw that goes through the lip of the buner and the bottom of the chimney pipe.
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by DaveyP2004 »

You may get the original part from this guy:
http://www.ashbridgedomestic.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He got an 240 v element for me and was superfast.

You will need the model and serial number of your fridge before you phone, normally on the silver sticker inside left of the fridge.

If you read the thread below you may get some discount too ?

http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/mot ... pares.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers,
Dave
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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by lhd »

shovelhead wrote:Im having the same problem in that the fridge isnt very efficient on gas. I took it out and the chimney thing isnt actually attached to the burner tube? It just lays over the pipe. Will this make a difference?
Yes it will make a difference and It should be attached.....
Pull it out and stick a blob of weld on it.
Rob.

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Re: Electrolux 184 RM Three Way Fridge Problems

Post by Llamapup »

Okay. Here's the update.

I have replaced the power selection switch with the one on Ebay as indicated in the thread above. It took quite a bit of doing to wire up the switch properly. I had ask my friend who is an electrician to use a multimeter to make sure the switch was wired up such that only one power source was carrying a current at a time. That was much more complicated than it sounds. The swtich itself was so large that in the end I had to fix it in a completely different location. Here are some pics:

The switch is located on the vent right above where the Westy table folds away.
Image

I had to fit the switch upside down so the toggle clears the table when its put away. The switch just barely clears the table.
Image

Anyway the switch is fitted and the gas burner and orifice have had a good clean. I plugged all the gas and electrics back together and fired the fridge up...........

On the gas setting it seems to light and put much more heat out the flu than it did before I cleaned the orifice. I suppose I'll need to wait to see if this translates into any cooling.

I have nowhere to hook up the mains at my house due to the prongs on my lead not being able to plug into my house electrics. I'm expecting it to run of 240V though as it seem to get nice and frosty cold in this setting before the problems with the switch.

I put it on 12V and will need to wait and see what sort of cooling I get. I was expecting to make some fridge-like noise when I put the switch to 12V, but there is no noise.

If everything is working as it should, how long will I have to leave it running to confirm that its cooling properly on the 12 Volt setting?

Thanks

Chris
Last edited by Llamapup on 05 Sep 2009, 19:12, edited 3 times in total.
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